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Atlantic Roleplay Community Boards
Roleplay Community Forums for the Atlantic Shard
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| Where should a Centralized Roleplay Location be? |
| Skara Brae Town (bank/community center area) |
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34% |
[ 13 ] |
| Britain Fair Grounds |
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13% |
[ 5 ] |
| Rotating Tavern Nights should be extended for one week and that Guild hosts, a nuetral location. |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| I dont think we should have one and I have a better suggestion below. |
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15% |
[ 6 ] |
| Britain (near the bank or castle?) |
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34% |
[ 13 ] |
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| Total Votes : 38 |
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Dealthagar
Certifiable
Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 1514
Location: Spiritual Nirvanna
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 Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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This is going to be my last post in the thread. I have some events and activities I am planning, and I will move forward with them. When i host them, as one of the big supporters of random RP, whoever shows to RP, ARPC or NonARPC is welcome.
| Grignag wrote: | | And to the most important point, again, this is Atlantic shard lore. The lore didn't stop when the game started and we must eternally be bound to it "as was". The situations have changed and so have we. |
This cannot be stated strongly enough. The game itself is mostly static. Without players creating history and making things for themselves to happen, nothing would happen. This isn't a quest or level based game with ongoing stories like WoW. We have what writers refer to as a "sandbox" world. They set the base, and we control our fiction. If we didn't, you could take every Vampire, Undead, Drow, Lycanthrope, Orc or other non-normal human, elf or gargoyle out of play immediately. We are a creative band of people and we play a growing story. To say "if it isn't canon, it shouldn't be played" is so rediculously over-reaching I can't even fathom it. (And, let it be said, I am a member of the Ultima Dragons and have been for 15 or so years)
| Judas D'arc wrote: | | Let's say I wanted to create a Tinker from Minoc, who follows the Virtue of Sacrifice. Yet according to the RP community's accepted fiction, the Kings of Minoc are a separatist kingdom who worship monkey demons. How does my Tinker possibly fit in with these monkey demon worshiping Kings of Minoc? |
The Kings of Minoc haven't always ruled Minoc. Traditionally, Minoc was the City of Sacrifice. These guys came in and took over. You don't agree with them. Guess what? That's OK. MTC was recognized by the GM's of the game as the rulers of Moonglow, but depending on who was leading the guild, MTC has had radically different eras. It happens. Abraham Lincoln, Herbert Hoover and GW Bush were all American presidents, but you wouldn't confuse thier regimes or eras, would you?
| Marcus Draven wrote: | | My guild is just RPers. We will RP with any group out there really. One thing that shocked me when SunWolf contacted me interested in not only trade but future plot lines between our guilds, was he said it was ok if we couldn't due to our guild being in the ARPC. Is that the image this community has put out? |
No. Never has. Oddly enough, many ex-ARPC guilds or the previous incarnations (The Consensus etc) seem to think there is. There is one and only one rule when concerning non-ARPC guilds, and it is a PvP specific rule: An ARPC guild cannot ally or be currently allied with a guild not in the ARPC. This is due to the conditions outlined in the requirements for acceptance into the ARPC..
That's it. The only rule. Other than that, the ARPC rules are about how our land-war PvP rules work out, and in-game, RP 100% of the time unless absoluetly unavoidable. The ARPC is mostly there as a facilitating body of GM's that agree to the same set of standards and PvP rules. I have friends that aren't ARPC members, and I RP with them as well. There are ARPC players that have characters that aren't in ARPC member guilds, but they RP with them. There's nothing wrong with that either. Heck, I control two guilds that all of the members regulate themselves by ARPC rules, but the guild isn't a recognized member. All this means is that we can't get involved with land wars or control territories. Since neither guild has any desire to do so, it's a non issue.
TBH, I've never understood why someone would "quit" the ARPC as a member. If your guild doesn't care about land claims or PvP, and you're just here to RP, what's the point of quitting? If you came to PvP, and you aren't finding the ARPC land war type PvP enjoyable, go do factions. Quitting has always seemed meaningless or an act of frustration.
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I have seen numerous threads over the last two years where people spoke out about the desire for a cetral hub for RP, as, in the history of Atlantic RP, neutral hubs were where RP happened. Random, bizarre, groundbreaking, shard history making, good, bad whatever...but RP HAPPENED. The only problem this community has right now is inactivity. People are content to RP in twos and threes, privately, or over chat, in vent, over ICQ or on the boards, and not actually log into the game.
You want RP - Log In.
You want to find RP - Log in.
You want to do something, anything - Log the $%^& in.
The hubs simply make it easier to find everyone else who is logged in. If you build it, they will come.
_________________
The Three Truths of Singularity
Do something to the best of your abilty or don't do it at all
Feel to the fullest of your ability, cutting yourself off from your emotions leads to spiritual death
Control your being, your existance, your destiny.
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Judas D'arc
Journeyman
Joined: 27 Nov 2011
Posts: 140
Location: Yew
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Bryelle Vaughn wrote: | | To begin with, The land claim system does need tweaks. But it doesn't need to be totally removed. The issue with removing it is that you have a lot of crappy people in the ARPC along with the good ones who have no issue with tromping all over rp. Case in point: Someone claims a town and then goes out of their way to actually improve it (Ie: a stable, a tavern, a healing center, etc... all rp'd and player owned) and then you have some guild.. and I can name names here but I won't say... "Oh well the people love me and not them." What they are doing is stepping on rp because that second person hasn't done crap for the land they say they are loved by. The catch to this is if you have someone who claims land and is effectively that second person. In that instance I though a challenge should be made and your point proven that they haven't done squat for that piece of soil. And at one time there was a rule that if you had only so many guild members you could claim just your home base and one other section of land. Ideally the land expands with the guild. |
I guess I don't understand why doing positive things for a region, particularly an NPC town, requires a land claim. A character can live in an area, make improvements, and it doesn't have to do with an in-character/player claim to the territory. Also, I don't think land claims are necessarily an effective way to police the community from disrespectful players. If someone is going to try to take credit for your efforts, a theoretical map won't really make a difference. It's always best to try to work something as players, and if that doesn't work, look to take a more appropriate community action.
| Bryelle Vaughn wrote: | | Secondly, Ultima is just that.. its a backdrop. And Grignag is right. We are not going to adhere completely to it just because that's how the developers demanded we do it. Do we use it, Yes. Do we make it our bible, no. Nor should we. If we, as roleplayers, can't be creative enough to take what we had and expand majorly on it, then you might as well take this off as an MMO and make it one of your little stupid shooter games that have a concise endpoint. After all the whole point of being an MMO is to allow us to craft our vision and see it through while mixing with other people. |
I think perhaps you misunderstood me, because I wasn't stating it was an either/or scenario. I'm a proponent of Ultima fiction being a background, but I recognize and encourage player created content at the same time. There's a difference between Ultima Online's fiction and the canon Ultima games. Technically, only Ultima 1 is canon in Ultima Online, while the rest of the games have been mined here and there for both game developed and player developed fiction. Likewise, each shard has it's own history that is different from when the shards were first opened. However, there's a lot of creative space that exists between strict Ultima lore compliance and outright contradicting it. My overall point was that fictional consistency is good for a community, and the best place to look to that is the actual game content that was provided to us. I mean, you can create a clan of Space Ninjas that take over Britain and re-name it Tatooine, but the game will never recognize that, so why bother? It doesn't promote fictional consistency or anything positive for the community.
| Bryelle Vaughn wrote: | | Third, there are a LOT of us who play down to earth characters.. Soren was a blacksmith, Tati is a tailor (among other things), Meegs a fisher, Arahim a fallen Paladin, Ceza a theatre owner, Lexi a treasure hunter. Not all of us portray kings... queens or leaders of towns. And the ones that eventually elevated.. did NOT start out as leaders of towns. |
Well, I certainly look forward to meeting your characters in-game and interacting with them. I didn't mean to say that they didn't exist, just that I thought a land claim system actually discouraged them because the current realities of the player base will lead to more kings than citizenry by default if the groups were creating concepts based on the land claim idea.
Thank you for your response. |
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Judas D'arc
Journeyman
Joined: 27 Nov 2011
Posts: 140
Location: Yew
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the response, Marcus. I did want to clarify that I didn't mean to imply that characters didn't have in-character reasons to travel great distances. Many do, my own character included, and it's obviously a necessity to attend events. I was just concerned that a land claim system encourages the idea that a group has to be tied to a land in order to be validated as role-players, and over-complicated all of that.
Likewise, my comments on special versus normal characters was also in the context of the land claim system, particularly due to a shrinking player base. It wasn't a commentary on any particular character, though I'm glad to see you're of a similar mind to me. Based on my interactions with your guild, the characters have come off as pretty "human" even though they're not.
Finally, if there are no ARPC rules to the contrary, hopefully we can get some events going in the future. |
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Inkari Northwind
Seasoned Veteran
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 455
Location: no where?
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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I've said all along that the land claim system is just "stupid". Other than player made towns and in game towns it's useless.
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"Life is but an Image, Of what honor truly is"
-Inkari Northwind
AKA Kurbda' PwNub |
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Marcus Draven
Seasoned Veteran
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 324
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Judas D'arc wrote: | Thanks for the response, Marcus. I did want to clarify that I didn't mean to imply that characters didn't have in-character reasons to travel great distances. Many do, my own character included, and it's obviously a necessity to attend events. I was just concerned that a land claim system encourages the idea that a group has to be tied to a land in order to be validated as role-players, and over-complicated all of that.
Likewise, my comments on special versus normal characters was also in the context of the land claim system, particularly due to a shrinking player base. It wasn't a commentary on any particular character, though I'm glad to see you're of a similar mind to me. Based on my interactions with your guild, the characters have come off as pretty "human" even though they're not.
Finally, if there are no ARPC rules to the contrary, hopefully we can get some events going in the future. |
Ah ok. I do see your point about a guild being validated through land claims. A very good point I think. One thing I use the map for personally is to see what guilds are out there. Just yesterday, I noticed a guild claim in Malas named "TM" and asked guildmates.. hey who is this? With the guild listings down its one way to boost the advertising of other RP groups. And I am all about promoting other RP guilds in any way possible, I even see highlighting or 'warring' as a means for this. On the whole I think people know they do not have to stay within their actual land claim though.
To your other point.. thanks for clarifying. I also agree with this if I take your meaning now. Like a guild that really isnt around owning half the map kinda thing? Ive spoken up several times that this I think comes down to integrity. If members leave or guilds for the most part are gone, their claims to vast lands should reflect this. This is not a bash by any means to guilds, it merely reflects your guilds standing within the world. But this is less a community thing and more per guild/individual.
As for future events, of course. I have enjoyed the interaction between our guilds and yourself. There is no reason you or your guild mates and mine cannot hold events or anything with eachother. |
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Grignag
Sage
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 500
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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When it comes to the ARPC war maps, they basically serve as a measure of a guilds influence. The farther they are spread out, the more powerful they are. If their numbers drop, are they still influential? Probably not. And if someone attacks their borders, they'll probably lose the territory. If they cry about it? Well, refer to my original post about how whining is stupid. This is not a lands claim issue. This is a people issue. OES and Orc (two guilds I had strong parts of) regularly attacked assets and people rather than territory. We were out for the evlulz and territory was just a sign of the areas in which we normally ran strong. It also gave people who were looking for interaction to go to. Mining on someone elses land and they come seeking taxes. What do you do? Making military manuevers/battle training in someone elses territory? Sends an aggressive message without actually requiring immediate combat. Cutting out territory won't really resolve issues that already exist for other reasons. I've already stated what I believe those were earlier, so I won't reiterate.
As to the matter of Ultima lore and our part in it, I think Dealthagar had it right. If someone does something that is out of line with how it "should be", then oppose it ICly in whatever fashion you deem best. Play with it and draw others to you that agree that this should change. If you want a city neutral, get others together to attack it and excise the unwanted influence and declare the territory neutral. It will be neutral on the map and any that attempt to claim it will be warned that their are forces out there that will immediately attack them if they try.
Also, suggesting that because people name themselves kings of a certain city they are attacking Ultima lore is unfounded. Even in game lore Lord British had to constantly rely on the Avatar to deal with most of the issues as opposed to sending an army (even though the guards in the starting castle could usually kick the crap out of his Avatar-heiny). Britannia wasn't some sort of monolith. It is/was a feudal nation and carries all that with it. That's perfectly reasonable rationale for why someone might declare himself lord of an area. EA games isn't gonna do anything about, the non-RP player base doesn't care, so we make an adventure of it.
If you want further justification, look at the catholic church during medival times in Europe. Technically only a religious body, it still could apply incredible amounts of influence over kings and queens of other nations. A king might have been the "true ruler", but the smart ones knew when the hedge their bets. The catholic church was a power broker in that era. And that is what guilds are. Powerbrokers. When weak/errant kings and queens are on the throne, the people with the power do what they want. We are doing what we want. And only other powerbrokers can stop us.
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Marcus Draven
Seasoned Veteran
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 324
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Marcus Draven wrote: | | My guild is just RPers. We will RP with any group out there really. One thing that shocked me when SunWolf contacted me interested in not only trade but future plot lines between our guilds, was he said it was ok if we couldn't due to our guild being in the ARPC. Is that the image this community has put out? |
| Deathager wrote: | No. Never has. Oddly enough, many ex-ARPC guilds or the previous incarnations (The Consensus etc) seem to think there is. There is one and only one rule when concerning non-ARPC guilds, and it is a PvP specific rule: An ARPC guild cannot ally or be currently allied with a guild not in the ARPC. This is due to the conditions outlined in the requirements for acceptance into the ARPC..
That's it. The only rule. Other than that, the ARPC rules are about how our land-war PvP rules work out, and in-game, RP 100% of the time unless absoluetly unavoidable. The ARPC is mostly there as a facilitating body of GM's that agree to the same set of standards and PvP rules. I have friends that aren't ARPC members, and I RP with them as well. There are ARPC players that have characters that aren't in ARPC member guilds, but they RP with them. There's nothing wrong with that either. Heck, I control two guilds that all of the members regulate themselves by ARPC rules, but the guild isn't a recognized member. All this means is that we can't get involved with land wars or control territories. Since neither guild has any desire to do so, it's a non issue. |
I agree totally. Maybe I wasnt clear, when people asked me about that. I was pointing out that this idea of not being allowed to obviously came from somewhere. I have been asked by people new to Atlantic RP. And as a community it appeared this message had been put out. That is how I see the ARPC as well. A collection of guilds that agree to a common RoE and CoC. |
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Marcus Draven
Seasoned Veteran
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 324
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Grignag wrote: | | When it comes to the ARPC war maps, they basically serve as a measure of a guilds influence. The farther they are spread out, the more powerful they are. If their numbers drop, are they still influential? Probably not. And if someone attacks their borders, they'll probably lose the territory. If they cry about it? Well, refer to my original post about how whining is stupid. This is not a lands claim issue. This is a people issue. OES and Orc (two guilds I had strong parts of) regularly attacked assets and people rather than territory. We were out for the evlulz and territory was just a sign of the areas in which we normally ran strong. It also gave people who were looking for interaction to go to. Mining on someone elses land and they come seeking taxes. What do you do? Making military manuevers/battle training in someone elses territory? Sends an aggressive message without actually requiring immediate combat. Cutting out territory won't really resolve issues that already exist for other reasons. I've already stated what I believe those were earlier, so I won't reiterate. |
Couldnt agree more!!!! Land claims should be an accurate representation of your guild.
I actually asked the Orc GM if they do anything with the ships, but with their lore they dont. I asked because we will be using land and sea routes to send caravans of resources to guilds. For example, Yew would like to get involved in this. I told him how we set it up and about routes. If a caravan gets raided or ship attacked.. well DAMN! But it will make for a good laugh and fun night of RP.
| Grignag wrote: | As to the matter of Ultima lore and our part in it, I think Dealthagar had it right. If someone does something that is out of line with how it "should be", then oppose it ICly in whatever fashion you deem best. Play with it and draw others to you that agree that this should change. If you want a city neutral, get others together to attack it and excise the unwanted influence and declare the territory neutral. It will be neutral on the map and any that attempt to claim it will be warned that their are forces out there that will immediately attack them if they try.
Also, suggesting that because people name themselves kings of a certain city they are attacking Ultima lore is unfounded. Even in game lore Lord British had to constantly rely on the Avatar to deal with most of the issues as opposed to sending an army (even though the guards in the starting castle could usually kick the crap out of his Avatar-heiny). Britannia wasn't some sort of monolith. It is/was a feudal nation and carries all that with it. That's perfectly reasonable rationale for why someone might declare himself lord of an area. EA games isn't gonna do anything about, the non-RP player base doesn't care, so we make an adventure of it. |
I do not think the intent was to say any group should change their RP or strictly follow UO lore. But it does make sense it should at least be acknowledged. Kings always had vassels in a monarchy, without it their kingdom would fail quickly. Making up stories or groups will always be a part of RP. Afterall, it is one of the cornerstones of RP to create ideas. Should we strictly follow UO lore? No, because as you said I would not exist as a vampire. Should we completely ignore it? No, it is the game we play and should at least follow it up to a point.
Overall though, good post! Kuddos! |
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Wynn
Honored Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 1107
Location: Falling Waters Fortress
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:00 am Post subject: |
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I have been very lucky to watch the New Mage tower in fel be rebuilt. This should be a place that we all use and enjoy. It has been amazing with historic people sitting beside me watching it as well. Recalling of how it was before. This is amazing. Sunwolf, Tazar, Halister, Molly, Lord ACB and Bennu these are all people who remember the first one. How lucky am I. Just a thought.
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Halister Marner
Site Programmer
Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 2232
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:15 am Post subject: |
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I've moved the inflammatory and off topic posts from the thread. There is some very good discussion here with some very valid points, let's not let it degrade and keep it as a mature and beneficial conversation.
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Lady Ditto Armunn
Sage
Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 547
Location: In the Clouds, with Cloudster
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Would it be possible for the poll to start fresh please? Maybe without the comments since those have been said & done already and have given people a chance to think & maybe vote differently. It seems to be a tie atm, & personally I like both of them,(leaning toward Skara), but maybe a fresh vote would help to break the tie and we can get things rolling, instead of this topic sitting in forgotten limbo.
IF something has already been decided, then "duhh", I musta missed it, and need a posted anvil to drop on my head to let me know. hehe
Thanks!
*hugs*
Ditto
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Dark Lady Ditto Armunn
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Tarothin Armunn Quote: "I know and I have mood swings like a pregnant woman at times. :/ I'm very random." |
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