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Kaelthir · Certifiable Joined: 28 Aug 2004 Posts: 1932

It's the feeling I'll never be satisfied in a relationship, or receive sexual gratification better than what I could give myself.
The idea that who I naturally am will never, ever be good enough for anyone.
The idea that I need to decide if I want to be lonely but proud, or suffer physically but be able to receive affection. Neither option is good.

I've got body image hangups, I hate being female, I am hating having to deal with relationships.
I'm sick of shaving and conforming to western beauty standards, but I wouldn't fault him for finding me disgusting. the problem is, I'm always the one that needs to change who I am. It would be like this for any relationship.
And I really haven't found any sexual gratification from another human being, the only thing I want is comfort. But it comes at a high price, sex is horrifically painful (like being stabbed in the uterus with a knife over and over and over), and I'm sick of giving blowjobs. I'm sick of the smell and taste of jizz.
I hate being second best, I hate how he always questions my opinion if he dislikes what I like. It's a roundabout way to insult someone. And he wonders why I don't talk to him about my problems or how I feel, because I fracking know he's judging me on everything I say. Consciously or not.
Sadly I find the female body absolutely rehensible, otherwise maybe I could find a place as a lesbian.
Also sadly, since I'm a human being I crave the affection of another human being, so this just becomes a broken cycle of loneliness.

For a long time I wanted a gender change, I always feel like my mind is masculine. But after talking to a man who feels he should be a woman, I realized something. I only wanted what was on the other side because I don't experience it right now, what I really want is some undefined area in the middle. Maybe I'm asexual and not transsexual.

I guess, I feel like I'm outside of society, that there is no place for me. There isn't a subculture I identify with at all, I'm fairly anti-social in real life and just spend my time sitting in my room. I don't like social activities. I'm not a drinker, I've never been drunk. I don't dance, I don't like sports.

So all that is the depression part. I'm well aware that I can't expect society to change for me, and the idea of many joyless years ahead is awful. Doesn't matter if I get a better job than what I have now, it's still just a meaningless grind. It's nice to think about everything just ending and leaving the system. Do any of you even know what it's like to walk to work and identify every poisonous plant on the route and consider eating it? To look at everything around you as a means to kill yourself with? Work is filled with knives and machinery and ovens, but also to look at my apron as a means to hang myself with. Or to drive into oncoming traffic or into a building. But all of that is messy, if I did it, it'd be through carbon monoxide poisoning. A nice permanent nap. A side note before anyone flips out, I'm not feeling like killing myself right now. When I'm the most suicidal, I can't talk about it. My brain is filled with nothing but noise and pain and all I want to do is hide somewhere.

But hey, talk about suicide on the internet and everyone is all "OMG UR JUST AN ATTENTION wench GO BE EMO ELSEWHERE YOU EMO EMOING EMO LOLOL EMO TEARS." or "WELL DONT WHINE TO US MAN UP AND DO IT". And if I did, everyone would be all "omg it came out of nowhere!! I wish I knew so I could do something!". But nobody cares, really. rubbish, I've been going through this since my teen years, and it hurt so amazingly bad to be dismissed with "Well it's just a phase you're going through! BE HAPPY! SMILE!!!" all the time. It really hurts to have my pain invalidated. And maybe that's what all of this is about. Who I am is invalidated by culture, the pain I feel about it is invalidated by everyone in the culture. But whatever, it's none of your problems, I'm the odd one out.

Moments of lucidity where I can think about it without crying are pretty rare.

Edda · Certifiable Joined: 20 Jan 2009 Posts: 1586 Location: US

I'm really bad at comforting people who are having issues.. But I care for you, Kael, so I dont want to not respond to this.

My personal opinion, is I dont think its a question of what sex you are attracted to, its finding that special connection, man or woman it doesnt matter. There will be one person you dont get sick of, somewhere. The feeling of depression can spring up from any lifestyle or situation. I'm happily married and have 2 kids and I still get in these funks where I just feel like I'm alone and useless. I feel like I'm not good enough for anything. I try to shake it off and dig down deep and find whatever confidence I can, but a lot of times I just want to curl up in a ball and die. I love my husband and kids, and I still want to die sometimes. Life can be so overwhelming, especially when you feel like you're a piece of crap. Its hard to try to remind yourself of your positive attributes, but really its the only thing that will get you through. A lot of people like you around here, Kael, you just gotta remember theres a reason for that. You're witty and smart, and its fun to have you in the community. I know its not much for me to tell you I enjoy getting rp poisoned and having dead flesh carved out of my arm, but really you made rp entertaining for me for weeks with that.

Isk · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject:

Body image is for noobs. Take it from Kaelthir chick.

Hermoine66 · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:19 pm Post subject:

I read your post and I do care about you too so I want to say my opinion as well.

My personal opinion and what I have to say is this, first off Edda is right you not alone feeling like this there are other that do. Secoundaly I dont think sucide is good choice to solve any problems or feelings in my opinion but I can releated some as to what you are feeling and have issues. You see in my teens and some when become adult I did want to kill myself and did thought about it and even at one point almost consistering to do it but I didnt. The reason why I want to is yes I felt useless and also hate myself cause I had disabilty (austusm) but i didnt kill myself cause I knew that I would hurt other that i care for. So how I soleve my feeling unsecure and such well my mom sent me to a conselor and also I took a deep long look and trying figure out why i feel like this. I suggest to you is not to worried about dating or having a man do some soul searching , maybe even see conselor or talk to a friend. I got frighten alittle when you said how you want to do sucide. Believe me it not a answer and also if you ever need to talk to me feel free to icq me I know you dont know me that well but if I could help you or even make you feel happy I will. Anyways I know that you are important to all us rper's and special. *hugs*

Sylvan Sherwood · Journeyman Joined: 14 Nov 2008 Posts: 107

We'll talk.

Bryelle Vaughn · Journeyman Joined: 22 Aug 2009 Posts: 223

Yup, had to respond to this as well. For starters being a female can really really suck sometimes. There is a lot to consider and we tend to be so much harder on ourselves than guys are. We will find an innuendo hidden in every look and every word they say or Don't say to us. And yeah maybe there are people who don't care about what is on other people's minds. That just isn't us. If we all didn't care to some degree we seriously wouldn't be here. So we care and we listen. I care and I am listening.
_________________
Ariana Lenoir[3:53 pm] She has all the subtlety of a rampaging elephant.

Edda · Certifiable Joined: 20 Jan 2009 Posts: 1586 Location: US

Agreed.. And I know this is quickly turning into a wench chat but the body image out there for women these days can be so friggen frustrating.. No matter how much lettuce you eat youre never skinny enough.

Bryelle Vaughn · Journeyman Joined: 22 Aug 2009 Posts: 223

Hermoine66 · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:32 pm Post subject:

Yeah omg like the body image for women they want them to be like thin as a tree and they need to realize us women do have curves and do like to eat ever now and then it just make so fued up with it.

Teh Glouris Lrod Kujabis · Transcendent Spammer Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 5740

Lets talk about 'molds'.

Between your post and the replies, the mold of western society females and whatnot has come up a bit (which I'll get to), but I'll bring up that there is another mold/perception issue in there: relationships.

It really sounds like your relationship isn't what you need. I originally typed 'want' there, but there's so many things we think we want, and maybe that is society pushing us towards a mold in subtle ways, which leads me to my point: what is a relationship, anyways? I think the stereotypical relationship is yet another mold that culture leads us to ('leads' is the mild word that I use to describe my mental image of dozens of people being swept down a raging river and being completely happy about it) that we somehow have been led to believe we need to fulfill or else the coupling was unsuccessful somehow. Case in point - you are displeased with sex, and I mean sex in general, not just 'my partner is bad in the sack' or any Jerry Springer-esque reasoning for wanting to end a relationship.

So, lets talk about breaking 'molds' - my advice, don't feel pigeonholed into whatever popular/western culture tells us a relationship is. There are most definitely relationships that fit what you are looking for. If your current boyfriend isn't compatible with it, then, well, what I've said already should already tell you what I'd advise if your current relationship is making you miserable. I think I've heard the term 'romantic friendship', but nothing says you have to have a relationship that can be categorized at all. I mean, the first thing that comes to mind when I think about non-standard relationships would be things like one night stand hookups or polygamy or something like that, but that's all sex-centric, isn't it? We are nearly at 7 billion people in the world - BILLION - think billion, and tell me that you are the only person that feels that way, or that there might only be a few people out there compatible with your way of thinking that you'll probably never have the good fortune of finding. That would be a load of crap, and you know it. Sure, it'll be harder to find than your standard relationship, but I know you Goona, and I know that we've talked about the concept of hard-to-find relationships before, and you can handle it.

TL;DR, see if your boyfriend is interested in a type of affectionate, romantic, nonsexual relationship (or however you want to summarize it), like, seriously able to commit himself to that, if you would be interested in that kind of relationship with him. If not, then you ought to sit back, think about what you want, think of how to get there, then get there, whatever it takes. There is a middle-ground between 'lonely but proud' and 'suffering physically but able to receive affection' that you can define.

Everyone has body image hangups. I wanted to phrase my point as, "How many females are not beautiful supermodels, how many guys are not chiseled underwear models, blah blah blah", but you know what? Even celebrities have body image hangups too, and they've made it known. It is 'never enough', and you should never sit and lament over some sort of food chain of beauty and where you feel you fall on it. Popular culture sets up that food chain as "Pretty people > Everyone else". Who gives a crap about the system culture has, seriously? The world is seen through a man's eye, pretty people are worshiped, there are popularity hierarchies in schools and workplaces and who knows where else... Seriously, screw it.

Now, relationships have a lot of compromises. You need to stop trying to change who you are, but, the chances of two people being perfectly compatible are pretty low. Be ready to make a few little compromises, just be unyielding on whatever would make you miserable; it seems like you are well aware of where that path leads.

I'm very familiar with the depression associated with the 'meaningless grind', but like I've been hinting at before: carve out your own fate. That might sound overly poetic and not very practical, but seriously, do what occurs to you, what makes you happy, what will lead to you being happy. The meaningless grind, on its own, is the carrot in front of the horse to keep him plodding on (*waits to be smacked for his Dragonlance reference*), but that doesn't mean you have to sit on the wagon. Take a step back, think about what you want, think about how to obtain that (there will be a LOT of pessimism here, and while you might compare pessimism with realism in this case, it won't help you; stay positive, the positive possibilities won't be lost just because you harp on the negative, if that makes sense), and then - most importantly - take steps to do it. Don't wait on it, there isn't any good reason to not act on your decisions. There are always friends that can give you advice on your decisions - second opinions can save you a load of trouble.

I also don't think it is attention whorish at all. To me, attention whoring is simply wanting a ton more attention than any human has a right to ask for - which brings me to my opinion, that humans all crave attention and everyone deserves a reasonable amount of attention. Seriously, what do you think my motivation for making this post is, someone who hardly posts? To 'placate an attention wench'? Some sense of obligation, when I never post anyways? No, it is because I care, and also because I see a lot of my troubles in you and I already firmly believe that people like us can make our way through life without issue, and not just struggle, but really shine; it is all dependent on us taking those steps to make it happen.

Anyways, I hope my thoughts have given you some ideas on how to proceed, and not just consolation (though consolation in addition to inspiration sounds even better than the latter alone). You know my ICQ if ju wunt tu blah. Normally I'd just spout all this off over ICQ, but I wanted anyone else out there that can take something away from this to do so.

Uh, back to lurker mode.

TayM'real · Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:39 am Post subject:

I have a 2 1/2 year-old little girl and it scares me to death about how she is going to have to 'primp' herself in order to compete with the image of what women are supposed to be these days. And this is coming from a man.

Now, I will put it like this. I am an attractive individual...just like everyone in the world. No matter how unnattractive or 'ugly' you may think you are, what appeals to some is not going to appeal to others. I mean hell - there are men that worship Sarah Michelle Geller and I think she looks like rubbish. And there are men who think Britney is a dog and I think she is fine as hell. Never, NEVER let someone decide who you are.

Sex..BJs...seriously, those should be reserved for people who care about you. The fact that you seem to despise and are missing something from your current lover says to me only that you will do whatever to obtain his attention and acceptance. That's fault number 1 and that's on you. You can say 'no'...you are a person and you matter. You don't want to do that, don't do it...trust me, it's much better when it's with someone you care about and you know cares about you as well.

Don't want to shave? You don't have to, but you have to understand that society as a majority prefers females shaved. That's who we are. That's what our society is. When I see a lady not shaven, do I freak? No, but do I think it's funny and unnattractive, yes. That's just me. I wouldn't make a big deal about it..it's their life, it's who they want to be. Doesn't impact me. But for every 'x' number of people who feel that way, there are 'x' number of people who feel that it's okay.

People all-to-often 'settle' for those that do not meet our emotional requirement and by that, I mean people that we honestly connect with emotionally, that understand us and accept us - for all that we are.

When my wife died, although we didn't get along, I thought my life was over. For years I was told i was too big to have sex with (mind you I am not large - 5'9'' and around 190). I was 28, had a 1 year old little girl and thought to myself 'who the hell is gonna want me'. But I met someone, someone who worships the ground I walk one. Who respects me for all of my interests, my desires in lifee, my nerdy video games and my fantasy of being a rockstar in my bedroom.

It's out there, you just have to believe, but you also have to understand that your wants and needs are important too. And that settling just isn't going to cut it. There are WAY too many people in the world to just settle Wink

BEST OF LUCK, GIRL...AND REMEMBER, YOU MATTER
_________________
To kill a non-believer tis not murder, tis the path to enlightenment...

Dealthagar

As an anti-social recluse myself, as much as I'd rather speak to you in person about his (as that's the sort I am), as one of the truly few people I give a damn about, I am compelled to reply.

Edda · Certifiable Joined: 20 Jan 2009 Posts: 1586 Location: US

Rags · Journeyman Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Posts: 143

Been trying to decide if I was going to write this or not since I'm not one to really talk about this stuff but the internet is a great place for anonymity, so hoorah!

All the advice before mine is great, and all I would add to things is trying to change your mental perspective on things. I know this sounds simplistic and silly but it's very important. I can only tell you things that have helped me, and they won't all apply to you, but maybe it will help. At the very least you'll know that you aren't strange to be feeling badly, you're in storied company.

I have some hang ups from my time in the military. I was into a lot of bad things but they never really affected me at the time. I never thought killing people or them trying to kill me was a big deal. I picked up pieces of two of my friends and I never thought it really affected me. I was wrong. When I got back home from my three combat tours, for a year or two, I thought everything was going swimmingly, but I was in denial. Things got strained with my wife because of MY issues that I didn't believe existed. I thought things were her fault. The VA said that I was bat-crap crazy from the tests they gave me and I have to see a shrink once or twice a month and at first I looked at it like it was a joke. If my grandfather could get through the Normandy invasion, albeit fragged to hell and almost killed, I wasn't going to admit I had mental problems from Iraq and Afghanistan.

As I said, I was wrong in thinking so. I was getting violent, not to my wife, but everyone was pissing me off and it wasn't good. I'm not a small guy and have been into fighting since I was a kid and me with no control could only end up with me dead or in jail. I finally realized I had a problem when my wife found me on the side of the bed with my .45 in my hand and all I could think about was how nice it would be not to feel anything. It freaked her out. It freaked me out. I'm not the "suicidal type" and never thought about it since then or before then. Even then it wasn't a depression thing, it was just a huge undercurrent of emotion that I had been suppressing and was coming out and the first thing I did when I was getting overwhelmed was grab my gun.

After that I started taking the shrink seriously. My wife and I almost broke up but I had an epiphany and realized all the stuff I was doing wrong. It was the first bad place we had been in six years and we were ill-equipped to deal with unhappiness in a usually great relationship. We got over that hump and have never been happier. Things do get better. I started talking about my experiences and it really helps. I don't bottle them up and only talk about it in a drunken rage that just sees me getting angrier and angrier. I talk about my problems with people that care and it helps. I also started working as a bouncer part time in a rock club and it is VERY nice to be able to get that aggression and rage taken care of when I have to fight drunks all night out of the bar (this friday NO ONE wanted to go out quietly), and it really helps me keep an even keel. I also teach the security staff at my club self-defense techniques every month. It helps me channel that negative energy somewhere productive.

Most importantly I don't deny the TRUE feelings that I have inside. I don't ignore them. I confront them. I keep a positive mental attitude and look on the brightside of things. It's easy to fall into a pit of despair. Think positive. Two simple words that seem so cheesy but when you get down to it it really helps. Get help. Talk to a shrink, just talk to someone who cares. If this many people that know you from UO, (which I don't, Hi, I'm Ragnar), are reaching out to you, know that you're not alone. There are people in your life that are there for you.

Now I'm starting to ramble and I hope my experiences help you out in some way. We're all messed up. It's not just you, I promise. We are all confused, lonely, and depressed at times. Think positive, surround yourself with people that care and you'll be alright. Hope that helps.

Cezanne Abella · Seasoned Veteran Joined: 24 Apr 2009 Posts: 475

It's likely no one here has ever seen me get real with anything I've written here. I keep personal feelings out of this place, and for good reason. But this will be my exception.

I'll be honest here, Kael, I don't know you outside of this game. The only thing I can say is that when I was interacting with the Undead, you were the ONE person who kept me wanting to hang around. You're the reason Ember joined. So as far as your personability and creativity, I can assure you that you have that going for you.

Reading up this thread, I see a lot of good advice, and I see a lot of advice from people who have -clearly- never been there. And I don't fault them for that. In no way mean to belittle what encouragement they are giving. They've just never been desperate and hungry enough to write what you had the balls (and lack thereof) to write. And for that courage, I admire you. It's not easy to come forth with such honesty and vulnerability. But I hope you can see from the responses that NO ONE here thinks it's attention-whoring or harbours any ill will because of it. You've got friends here. These are people who obviously accept and care for you more than the man you are trying to change yourself for. Don't do it. There is nothing more bleak and disturbing than waking up one day and realizing that you aren't who you have become - you've lost your identity. And I think that's part of what's going on here.

Admittedly, I'm a hippie. I spend my time with women who have learned to love who they ARE, and not what they become when they change for someone else. There's been no better influence on my life. Many of them don't shave. Many of them have dreads to their waist, and regardless of what they do or don't do, they look like human beings, just the way (insert Deity or creative instrument here) intended them to look. And none of them look they way they do because they feel compelled by the dangerous generalizations of Western Civilization to adhere to a mold. The most important thing that I can ever ask someone is to look inside herself and find what she most admires in a woman. Because that kernel is inside you too. It takes a leap of faith sometimes to look at yourself and say "What do I want to be today?" but you are free to do that, every day of your life. Life's far too short and entirely too precious to waste worrying about what other people think.

The grind, and the paycheck that comes with it, is a means to an end, only. Everyone faces it at some point in their life. Hell, I hire truck drivers. I want to be in a cabin in the woods, writing, every day of my life. And that's why I am working toward it. Means to an end. It will not change me. It can only change YOU if you let it. From what I've seen and read here of what you do, you are bending "the grind" to your advantage to some extent, as well.

You are beautiful; you're a goddess, just as you were intended to be. Please, please, please don't let anyone take that away from you. Because if they try, they are not worthy of you. Someone who would demean, belittle, or berate you, that person is far beneath you. Have a glass of wine, and let the wind blow through your hair, and know that you are loved, and if you take that leap, there are so many more people along the way willing to lift you up as there were trying to tear you down. The difference is, you can make the decision to leave the latter behind. Gender and sexual orientation are basal physicality. They are a far second to the kindling of a soul through the warmth of others. The soul has no genitals. It's hard to do sometimes, but you have to let go, and allow people love you with all that they are, for all that you are.

I was where you are. Please, be true to yourself. And please...add me to your icq if you don't still have me... 131737315, and talk with me...