Atlantic Roleplay Community Boards

[Takashi Mandaka]

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First I'd like to say that when the BL was created oh so long ago, one of the obvious "problems" with RPing a Ninja Clan in UO is that what you'd REALLY expect would be never to see the members EVER unless they were like trying to kill you. They'd be in stealth like ALWAYS. Well, that's not really practical, because like anyone else in the game that RP's, you need to have some face time even for things like recruitment opportunities. Folks don't join guilds they never see.

So yes, folks "see" BL members from time to time.

Anyway, so you're a ninja (hopefully in the Blue Lotus Clan...woot) and you've been assigned to collect some intel using your eyes and ears. This can go one of several ways.

1. You can stay hidden, which is fairly practical at times.
2. You could use a disguise kit and turn off your guild tag (but then no one can know OOC WHO you are, and WHAT you're trying to do).
3. You could OOC comm with someone letting them know what you're doing with your RP, like "Hey! Act like you don't know who I am right now!". This is fine, but if you're assigning a task to a guild member, having them do this takes away a little of the spontenaiety (sp?).

4. You could (and this is what I'd like to hear back on) set a standard with the community that when you see a member of X guild IN a Ninja Hood, you can't see their face, but can easily recognize they're with a group like the BL (when the ninja is wearing a uniform like the BL does). And conversly, ask that folks not recognize them if they are seen in civilian dress (hakama, pants, kasa to hide the face). In other words: No Uniform on, you don't realize they're "ninja".


I don't know if that's clear enough. What I'm getting at here is if there's a way to que folks into the fact that the BL member that's walking up to you right now wants to be seen as just another civilian/farmer/gardener etc. without having to use a disguise kit and turn off their guild tag. Cause if they do THAT, then the person they're talking too can't tell OOC that you're really fishing for information along X plot line.

Does that at least make sense??

*sigh*

Anyway...any ideas or comments?


For the record: This is the kind of discussion that I think would have been fairly pointless to have where "we" came from. It was hard to get the "whole community" on the same page a lot of times. But I really think ATL has their sh*t in one sock enough that maybe something along these lines could work here. (Was that enough sucking up?? )
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Takashi Mandaka
Soke (Ret.), Blue Lotus Clan

[Arcana]

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I can't resist... it sounds like it's time for 'Goona or KujaSteve to post another manifesto about how no one wears "badges."

[Orgollree'rean]

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I like to let people know when I'm steathing usually, by casting a mirror image on an animal form, or emoting something then mirror image and disappearing again, or even using poisoning skill or casting shadow jump just for the noise. There is a drawback to this, if they know you're there their not gonna give you any info, but at least you are visible to others and they can see your RP (the only way a stealther can really RP). If i really want the info, they will just never know i was ever there. Another thing I do is generally RP with my non stealthing char, my stealther is a priestess of Lloth (i use ninja spells as her clerical spells of deception) and really wouldn't like talking to non drow anyways.

[Takashi Mandaka]

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I guess it's important to note that I'm talking about something more "scripted" as far as someone asking a ninja clan to obtain some specific information that once passed on to the "employer" will drive a plot further down the road.

I totally agree, when you're just going around trying to gather intel that's just "available", there are a few tricks (I especially like the shadow jumping idea) to let folks know that a ninja is about.
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Takashi Mandaka
Soke (Ret.), Blue Lotus Clan

[Cal Hurst]

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Wind Chimes!
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[Doireann]

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[Mairsil]

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I think these are sort of already in place... Correct me if I'm wrong but that is why Sanctus no longer allows people to cover their face, because no one knows you are if you do.

Technically though, I'd like to point out that if you are carrying daggers all over your body, you are wearing a dress, and have a giant face covering hat - I'm probably goign to assume your a ninja anyways. There's only two kinds of people that dress that way..and they both come from one place. I think most people wouldn't recognize you, but it is fair to say that they would still be in the right to suspect.

I personally think disguise kits are awesome. Not that I would insist that all your members should have to use them, but I dont think that the guild tag being visible should be the reason for such. If you really want a convo to happen and to get specific answers either you talk it over in icq first or you dont, but even if you don't I think people will be true to their character. If it is information they would be at all willing to share they'd share it with you regardless.

Lastly..on the topic of stealth.. keep in mind that stealth is a touchy subject. I do have characters that have the skill and use the skill, yes. However, at the same time..I know that in an example situation.. If Myrddin the patriarch of umbra is in his sepulcher talking to a warlord and a cat temporarily pops out of the darkness for a few seconds - I don't think I'd be likely to take that as an ooc 'heads up'. I'd be more likely to role play that a spy just made themselves aware and that they should die for spying in mine crib. I'm not trying to wench about stealth here or say don't do it, but I would reccomend being careful about when you use it.

To expand on the thought of stealth, which may or may not belong in this thread...I still would really really love to see line of sight & sound concepts when it comes to stealthing in rp. Using a smoke bomb to get away makes sense, using stealth if you hug the wall of a shadowy room makes sense.. But standing in the middle of a brightly lit room and still being hidden doesn't. I sincerely would love to see *and give mad props whenever I do see it* when stealth involves using corners and ducking/ crawling behind objects. Accepign that walking is quiet and running makes audible noise. Hell, even the specific use of colored cloathing depending on your area - I know people have done some of these in the past, but I'd really love to see someone actually expand upon it and use it consistently.


Sorry if I seem winded, my thoughts are kind of jumbled, but I guess my basic look on things is that I really don't think anyone would give your guild any problems as long as you were within reason.
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"You see I can not be forsaken, because I'm not the only one. We walk amongst you, beating, r#ping, must we hide from everyone?" - Jon Davis

[Teh Glouris Lrod Kujabis]

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The pervasive stench of "UR WEARING A BADGE LOL" comments has drawn me forth from the underworld of World of Warcraft. Rawr.

All I really have to say (since it was hinted that I should give this a read and reply) is that you are presenting a common sense argument. Your reader base is divided in two: those that have absolutely no problem understanding common sense, and those that will never in their life make any sort of sense, let alone common sense. It is the latter that you are presenting your argument to, and it is that group that will probably never understand it. You may be fighting a battle that is already lost, but such is the curse of trying to make a sensible argument on the internet.

Anyways, if the rules were all written by me, I would say that nobody ever, for any reason, should need to hide their guild tag for IC reasons, because that is simply removing the easy route for metagamers instead of them actually not metagaming in the first place, which is the real issue. Don't pluck the weed, kill the root. As for mempos, hooded shrouds, ninja masks and the other masks, one could argue that you could remember the voice, height, posture, etc of the individual, so that an observant character could probably remember the same shrouded individual, if they've seen them before (given that they haven't altered their disguise), but I'm sure we're talking about pure metagaming.

TL;DR: Metagamers can sometimes be salvaged by teaching them that metagaming is bad and teaching them some good guidelines to live by in regards to masks/mempos/shrouds/etc, and sometimes they will be resistant to your suggestion that they do not have x-ray vision and ESP. If they fall into the second category, just save yourself the headache and avoid them.

[Takashi Mandaka]

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[Teh Glouris Lrod Kujabis]

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Fairness doesn't necessarily come into play here. You can do whatever everyone in the community will go along with, fair or not. Fairness just helps ensure that it'll last a long time.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, trying to get everyone to agree to a rule or guideline like this is like trying to catch water in a sieve. Anyone that is a good, drama-free roleplayer would have worked with you before you went to all this effort, and anyone that is a poor or dramatastic roleplayer will come up with stupid crap or just outright ignore what you're trying to do no matter how much effort, how carefully crafted this is.

[Phararun Mizzrym]

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who said you cant kill a vampire..... i can be killed just in different ways. there was even something rped out where malic killed a vampire easily...

[Nh'bdy]

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Being a masked role-player, I'll tell you this. Deny Deny Deny. But on the coin of Ninja masks, unless you're RPing it as a burlap sac upturned (teehee, love that idea, so scarecrow) it's known as a NINJA MASK, therefor, you sir, are a ninja. You should obviously follow the wonderful example set my Dr.McNinja



Yeah, you know he's a ninja, but you don't say anything because, well, he's a ninja. So start dressing like everyday common professions with ninja masks. Or, even better, never go to Tokuna again, ignore it and hope it sinks.
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Work in Progress.
"What do you call a fish with four legs? A stool pidgeon! Bwuagh bwuagh bwuagh bwguagh!"
~Malorn

[Ilaria Giovanni]

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I personally really try to avoid seeing guild tags/titles and assuming or knowing anything about a player. Though I do think in some small ways your mind set shifts a little even if you try to avoid it. You make some broad assumptions about how to interact and approach or NOT approach.

I think also that being in shroud, large face covering hat, or mask are pretty clear indicators that the person wearing such wishes some amount of privacy or secrecy. Unless I am rping an extremely innocent, curious, child like character (who may wish to discover the secret) I tend to stear a wide berth around these folks. As it just seems to me the body language and image they give is one of stay away.

I sort of feel you are grateful for those people you come across that interact well with your rp, accepting of those who stay rather neutral and try to ignore and work around those who make it difficult. Not much else one can do. Other than educate.

[Ceinwyn ab'Arawn]

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I cannot say this enough. I love well written profiles. If done well, they will tell people what they should expect on looking at you or interacting. I highly encourage everyone to do them.


OK, you wanna be a Ninja? Put in your profile what you look like. In a different disguise tomorrow? Change your profile to suit your needs. You can change anything you want to right there, and no one worth RP salt can argue it. Just make sure to really change your hair color or whatever if you put it in the profile. Dress differently from day to day if you are swapping disguises. It gives realism, and it sends a hint to an rper that rp with you previously that things may not be the same now and to check the profile again.

I love profiles.

I hate RP profiles that read like this:

Heart of Lion 2837k
Inquis 324827k
random arty 32479k

YO *insert random pvp guild* Is the bomb lolz

If I don't see a profile about someone's char, similar to what Iliara said, my mindset shifts a bit. I think perhaps the person doesn't care enough to write one or perhaps they assume everyone will metagame them for it. The only reason anyone would metagame a profile is if the person put in information strangers ought not to know, such as :

John Smith
Age 38
Hair Blonde
Eyes Blue
Height 6'1
Weight 220lbs

John is a nice person. He suffers silently, because he lost his family in an orc raid. One day when he was 5, they descended on his village and slaughtered all but him. He vows to make the world a good place and has dedicated his life to serving the Virtues.

Yes, well written, if I don't say so myself, and very enlightening about his past and behavior. However.. it doesn't tell too much what he looks like, and it too easily allows someone to walk up to him and just act like they know him. A good rper will ignore everything below the basic description and rp with the person to get to know him, without just forming the idea of John as a lightbringer because of his profile. But newer rpers have trouble sorting this out, so it's better to avoid it by filling the flavor text with something more like this:

John Smith
Age 38
Hair Blonde
Eyes Blue
Height 6'1
Weight 220lbs

John's weight is made up mostly of his middle. He appears middle-aged and tired. He is completely human in physical appearance. His clothing is well cared for, as if he takes pride in his appearance and belongings. He smells strongly of cheap ale and pipe tobacco. His beard is tinged with grey streaks and his hair is thinning.

That is much better. It is what you would know from being in proximity to someone. Not their whole childhood. We can learn that from roleplaying with John Smith.

I usually try to remember a smell for all of our strong nosed friends out there. People playing ninjas should take care to disguise their smell, as a lycan will realize who you are, even if you look different.

Then you have to consider people who can read minds. Generally a ninja should have enough focus to block this type of thing out, unless they are inexperienced or have never encountered it before.

Hah hope this helps you in some way. Umbrans aren't allowed to turn off guild abbreviations except in very rare instances. Mostly because I am a *insert swear word* about having to change standards because of the ignorance of others and their "badge-seeing" abilities.

I'll go stir my soup now.