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Thomas Hunter · Sage Joined: 07 Nov 2007 Posts: 572

I suggest the following changes to this portion of the tournament. The new game mechanics for pet control would allow these changes and even dictate them.

1. Tamer against Tamer, Pet Against Pet. Tamers will have their pets STOP guarding, and will only have their pets attack the other tamer's pets.

2. If a tamer takes down the other tamer, he/she can then heal his/her pet, and even attack the other pet.

3. In the case of a flying pet, when it becomes wounded to the point it starts flying away from the pet damaging it because it is close to death, the match or the pet portion of it will be called. It's hard for a non-casting pet to chase down a flying pet when it is fleeing, and no need to cause the death of the pet trying to retreat to prove a point.

4. When it becomes obvious that one pet has clearly won, the match could be called to prevent the death of the losing pet. (As a tamer, I take each death of my pets harshly becuase of the time necessary to cap them off in skills again. I won't cry or nothing like that when my pet loses, but if he is obviously outclassed I will concede the match.)

Now, here is a part where we must reach some decisions. We all agree that having Ubers in there would be fairly unfair for the most part, unless both participants had an Uber Dragon. In all fairness, a well Trained Cu Sidhe like Redrum can easily defeat any other tamed pet without healing from his tamer other than another well trained cu sidhe or an Uber dragon. Cu Sidhes have healing skill. And even though they might be taking damage from the other pets, they can heal themselves.

Now, if the Tamer had been able to dispatch me and then turn to healing their pets, they would be able to win. But if both tamers are taken out of the equation any decently skilled cu with decent stats will take down a mare/rune or even mare/ww combo because of that healing. Especially if they took down the mare first.

I think we need two classes for the beastmaster portion. Heavyweight, and superheavy weight. Heavyweight would include any type pets shy of cu sidhes and Uber Dragons. The Super Heavyweights would include Cu Sidhes and Uber Dragons. Redrum could take an Uber if I was there healing him. He has done so already.

To be able to break this up more fairly, we would need more participation in the classes. In the future I will not take on mare/runes or mare/ww's with my cu. If necessary, I will forfeit.
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Mave Gerhart · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:26 am Post subject:

Partly agree and partly disagree.

Here is what I would suggest and I believe others have already spoken of it and suggested the same. For the standard Beastmaster battle, there really needs to be nothing competing that cannot be tamed with GM taming. If what I have been told is correct, neither cu sidhes nor hyped up dragons can be tamed at gm level. So this is the part that I agree with Thomas in is let that be the limit for the standard fights. If you want to have a super beast fight, that is up to Adrien and the Protectorate as it is their tournament, but for just the standard fights, nothing above what can be tamed with GM taming.

Now, where we differ. I would have no interaction between the tamers whatsoever. No healing, no attacking them, and no attacking by them. Let them command their animals and that is that. This is a Beastmaster competition, as in who has trained and can command their beast the best. If the actual trainers wish to battle, then let them enter the single combat tournament. There is no point in the tamers fighting each other as many tamers are not going to be equipped in a PvP manner. They have pets to do the fighting for them, why then do they need to fight themselves when they are in a "pet" battle.

Let the pets do what they do best, and let the winning tamer be awarded based on his animal training and animal commanding abilities.
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Kaelthir · Certifiable Joined: 28 Aug 2004 Posts: 1932

Having person vs person and pet vs pet would essentially turn it into a standard duel then, which takes away the entire point of having a beastmaster competition. While I like Mave's suggestion, ultimately there's not much skill involved in it at all. Part of the trick with tamer PvP is being able to control the pet effectively to attack other players, a lot of tamers (at least back in the day) can't do that too well. Limiting it to GM-level-only would keep the pets from munching the opponent up too fast, which would be a bonus.

Cal Hurst · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:26 am Post subject:

Pets should not be able to attack players. A beastmaster tournament is about bringing your pets and having them attack eachother. If pets are allowed to attack players, the games would never end.

This would happen:

Player 1 has a dragon
Player 2 has a white wyrm.

The wall is dropped.

Player 1 sends dragon after Player 2
Player 2 sends white wyrm after Player 1

Player 1 and Player 2 both end up dieing.
Pets are alive and just sitting there.

"But tamers can have weapon skills! They might survive against a dragon!"
That means that those tamers who do not are at a severe disadvantage. The beastmaster tournament was always designed so that people who don't necessarily PvP, but have pets they want to kill things with, can bring their tamed pets to fight eachother.

Also, I can tell you right now, that under this rule, I could submit my character with his lesser hiryu into the taming division and win or come pretty damn close, and he doesn't have any taming. After all, the fight ends when both the pet AND the player are dead. I'll just send my lesser hiryu after the tamer, and then go after him myself. Either I kill him or my pet does, then I take down the pets with slayer weapons and chivalry.

There's a mass melee and a duel category for the tournament. That's 2 full on PvP brackets. Let the beastmasters have their not-so-PvP bracket.
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Thomas Hunter · Sage Joined: 07 Nov 2007 Posts: 572

With the new pet controls... you have much greater control over your pets if you have the skill. In the past if you attacked a tamer chances were his pet would autodefend. Now, you can turn that off with telling him to stop guarding. As long as you have the skills, and you are alive, your pet will do as you say. I love it.

I would have to say that I am a Battle Tamer. I have 0 magery, and and 120 Archery, Med, Chiv, Taming, Lore, Vet. I have been knight of justice, a couple of times. Not that I actively seek out Murderers, but I tend to hunt in fel, especially during events. I am much more practiced at PvPing with pets than your average tamer. And, One on One, even without pets, most mages would not stand much of a chance against me in an enclosed area. I didnt say all, just most. And Most Tamer Mages, dont spend many millions of gold in the armor they would need to surive my bow. At one point, I had spent well over 100 mil for my suit. I am at max resists now, with 4/6 casting, and some HPR thrown in for good measure.

This is the character I play the most. I killed off my fully trained WW when I got my Uber. I gave away my trained Rune beetle as well, because I have a better one I need to train, but with the new ubers, I don't spend the time training them I should. I will remedy that. I just tamed a WW. As soon as he bonds, I will start training. Until then ill be training my Rune Beetle to replace the one I will have to fight in the tourneys since I gave to a tamer in ARPC. (Kicking myself now cause that is a good beetle that will come back to haunt me Smile

)
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"Always speak the Truth even if it leads to your death." - Lord Godfrey

Molly · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject:

I can tell you that if I had been alive last night and had been able to heal my pet I would have done much better. But dead I can do nothing but watch my pets die. One of my pets didn't even attack until after the other died.

I was under the impression on joining the first tourny a few weeks back that it was pet against pet, not tamer against tamer. I did joined again last night knowing that it was tamer against tamer and attempted to attack the tamer but was just not fast enough at the trigger to get off the command before I was dead. That to me is not skill and training of pets but it is eye hand coordination and I ain't got it *grins* that's why I don't PVP much. *grins*

I like the idea of just letting the pets duke it out and I would very much agree to that change.
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Darrien Church · Honored Member Joined: 06 Jun 2004 Posts: 1810

I've already just added that all pets need to be GM tamable or below.

If there are any more suggestions, direct them to me in Q and if they are acceptable I'll add them to the beastmaster rules.

Tay Thormear · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject:

GM or below tamable pets, and only have the pets fight the other pets.

There should be no PvP. I could make an -unkillable- temp and run in circles while my pets killed the tamer then killed its pets. It's pointless though, as Vaen stated, the category is for those who spend their time training pets, not training PvP.

Pets vs Pets.
My opinion.