Atlantic Roleplay Community Boards

[Arcana]

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Good topic, Vaen!

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Spontaneous RP

I love it. What is the point of RP without spontanaeity? I could just go read a book. RP is an adventure story everyone writes together, so if you script out every little detail you lose the living, breathing part of the story and it just becomes another novel. That said, spontaneous RP has to have structure around it for it to make sense. You need big-picture stuff defined - I think you need the beginning and the setting sketched out just enough to provide context, and its often worth discussing what possible endings could take place for major things if they have permanent ramnifications, but never going so far as to have a predetermined ending.

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Character Flaws

People don't like to have flawed characters, because they RP so they can be someone better than they ever could be in RL. What I think of as a character flaw is not a physical weakness like Superman and kryptonite, but a moral failing like cowardice or greed.... the same weaknesses that real people have. Sometimes they are obvious, sometimes not so much - whether or not you can see them really depends on the skill of the RPer. People do tend to oversimplify their weaknesses and have some singular, traumatic event that shapes them and I think that kind of melodramatic cliche should be avoided.

Isk is a great example of a flawed character. He's a complete train wreck. Arlin was also another very memorable flawed character. Those are the two big stand-outs that come to mind from my RP time.

Probably hardly anyone here remembers my character, but I often wonder how people perceived her. I think she certainly had her flaws, but I tried to paint her in shades of gray rather than stark black and white. To me, the polar extremes of character are very boring and very rarely observed in real people (therefore they should not be a dime a dozen in RP-land either). I would not characterize her as a "lightbringer" at all (a term I've always loathed, btw). Yes, she was a "good" character who tried to bring order and fought for what she believed in, but she was never on a crusade. Her biggest problem was with her personal life: she walked out on her first husband (sorry Robert ), was a distant/uninterested mother to their child, broke another suitor's heart, and finally took a totally inappropriate half-ogre as a lover that most of her friends didn't trust or outright hated. Yet, she thought of herself as noble, honorable, and a leader with a strong sense of duty - when this self-perception happened to conflict with reality, she resolved her cognitive dissonance by punching someone or drinking heavily . At least in my mind; others may disagree.

I will always remember Vaen telling me once that he was intimidated IC by her - that made me proud because I also tried to think about how a woman in a medieval setting would have to be hard and cold to lead knights on the battlefield. In a lot of ways Arc was not a friendly character, and was not at all comfortable with the softer side of herself.

Edit with an addition: There needs to be balance though, because overdoing flaws just makes your character appear neurotic or mentally imbalanced. That's certainly a valid RP route, but I've almost never seen it done well.

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Dynamic Characters

Change is good. Everyone needs a goal, and in long-running games like UO that go for years, people need to change over time.

One of my big complaints with UO RP is that time never passes for most characters - people are 25 forever and kids spring into being full grown and stay that way. So yes, characters should change over time. How much change they go through is up to the individual player and how they see the character. Some people are just old souls that get their act together sooner in life than others, and some people struggle a lot more to figure out where they need to be and what they need to do, or circumstances just force them to change more.

I don't really understand how your four categories would preclude someone from being dynamic, though. Maybe I need to read that again. I do agree that your categories encapsulate the vast majority of characters here, though.

I'll close by quoting myself from above: "People do tend to oversimplify their weaknesses and have some singular, traumatic event that shapes them and I think that kind of melodramatic cliche should be avoided." People also seriously overuse the cliche of the singular traumatic event to effect a change in their characters. Sometimes it can be a very useful tool, but it does get overused around here a LOT.

[Ditto Armunn]

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I live for spontaneous roleplay.
I've tried small scale scripted rp and really didn't care for it. It normally leads to someone trying to get you to rp your character for you.

RP drama is great, but then there's OVERdoing it,(overacting?), and sometimes that can lead to your not rping your character the way you wanted. That's almost as bad as non'responsive rp. I don't mean ppl that go afk and aren't responsive, I mean stuff like, those that think they are invulnerable to all pain itself. A very few might be invulnerable, but seriously, it would make me WANT to cut off someone's limb if mere torture doesn't seem to draw so much as a bead of sweat to a normally built average female.
Some people, both sexes, seem to think that rping being in pain makes their characters seem weak mentally. I don't see it that way. You can still rp how painful something feels and still scream out at your torturer to "Go to Heck" or whatever. It's really funny too because it seems like more women characters rp like they feel way less pain than male characters do. That's hilariously sad when it happens. Seems like we have a ton of hero's (both sexes), yet hardly any damsels. I'm female irl, and Im not ashamed to say that women are, on the norm, physically weaker than males irl & ig.

Not showing fear or at least nervousness when faced against an admirable or strong force irks me. I'll take from experiences I've seen/know here, like, when D|O goes to Sanctus, you can see & feel Talon's strength of will. His courage. But you also get a respectful sense of nervousness, or a fear felt for the people he's responcible for. However, there's also the rare times that one or more of our more evil-aura'd lords go to a town and are met with people who fear nothing at all, are nervous about nothing ....at all. Wouldn't an entire town of non-fearing people be just a little bit odd? And why wouldn't the town's leader be at least a little nervous that these "bad" guys might start slaughtering their people at the slightest provocation?
Each character can have their own way of showing emotions. Even my stoic, Imryrr, can show her emotions simply by the way and the when she goes stoic. She gets nervous or frustrated at things, she just handles it oddly. From how Ditto was raised, and the what/who she lives w/ on a daily basis, most "dark" beings don't phase her, but her nervousness around cows or the more dreaded bunnies get a rise of fear out of her. She's even nervous around a couple of the D|O members. (not to complare them to cows or bunnies)

I more enjoy rp'ing my characters fears or weaknesses than their strengths. It's much more of a personal challenge. . I see Ditto's love, curiosity & carefree search for fun as both a strength & a flaw because it's what drives her & has landed her in ALOT of trouble.
So, yeah, flaws are FUN. FLAWS ftw! *grins*

((heavily edited cause, wow, I so suck at posting today))
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The Dark Lady, Ditto Armunn, D|O -(hawk# 232286048 )
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Quote: "Oh Great! First I get stabbed and now I'm bleeding!" - Ditto
[quote="Tarothin Armunn"]I know and I have mood swings like a pregnant woman at times. :/ I'm very random.[/quote]

[Sir Robert]

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[quote=Arcana]Her biggest problem was with her personal life: she walked out on her first husband (sorry Robert ), was a distant/uninterested mother to their child, [/quote]

Dont worry, it helped building my character, and as Sir Robert always says: It was neither ones fault. They were simply not meant to be together as spouses.


For the other, actuall stuff in this thread (and more):
Spontaneous versus scripted:
I agree that for the day-to-day interactions, spontaneous roleplay is simply necessary. However, if you want to do a story, or event or quest, you do need a certain guideline. Not taking the other players by the hand and just giving them roles they have to act out, but you need to know what will happen when and what will happen if something you planned didn't work.
And as Drayden said, everyone directly involved should know what would be in store for him or her. As example, I wouldn't really agree with a plot that would either kill Sir Robert or the dodo or make either one undead or a lawyer.
In other words: if there is no real story behind: spontaneous. If there is a story, you need a balance, after all, you do want to tell a story.

Character flaws.
Sir Robert is somewhat of a coward (tries to avoid places or events that might be bad for him), and he is also shy and doesnt interact much with others. Also he is slightly insane and a recovering alcoholic. And at least Arcana would say that his sense of taste in clothings is more than doubtful *winks*. He can also be too much of a politician, trying to please everyone and sometimes he tries too much to see the other sides point. Which, some would say, makes him a bit weak in his willpower (which fits into his cowardice).
I try not to be overtop with him, and most of his flaws are subtle, but I try to have them there... Should someone manage to switch out his milk or water with spirits or ale... Well... You might have a drunkard on your necks.

But again, as other said, there is the need of a balance. We don't want all becoming Hannibal Lectors or Dr. Jekylls.

Dynamic Character
What does that actually mean? For me it means, a character grows. While changing in outlooks of live is possible, there are also others who simply don't change that much. I wouldn't call those characters stale, but more stable. Especially since I play one myself.
However, in this case I am also a proponent of spontaneous roleplaying. No change that Sir Robert did, was planned beforehand. The Dodo, the Tricorne hat, the insanity, the alcoholism was all part of what happened in game and I ran with it. Sometimes it ran away with me, too.
As for aging. Well, this is Ultima. There are simply people in Ultima that don't age as fast as others: Lord British, Shamino, Dupre, Iolo, Gwenno and most, if not all other companions of the Avatar. Heck, even Mr. Smith the horse didn't age. Do my characters age? Some do, some dont. Sir Peter will always be the old coot, his aging has evened out at about 60 to 65 years of age. Same goes for McDouglas my mule. My tamer is an elf so he wont visibly grow older.
With Sir Robert I do "apparent" ages. Which means I will never state that he is 34 years of age, or any other definite number. He will appear as in his mid thirties. Then I will age him to mid to late thirties. Then late thirties. Then late thirties to early fourties, etc.
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Reality, the refuge of those who fail in RPGs

Though this be madnes, yet there's method in't

[Alexander the Elf]

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Spontaneous Roleplay - Personally, I enjoy spontaneous roleplay to a degree, but I usually like it to lead to something more eventually. It's cool and all to go to a tavern or walk around town, but if you do the same thing over and over again it gets pretty boring. I like when my spontaneous RP goes somewhere, with more interaction between my character and others characters, so that we build upon each other and have character development. That's probably my favorite part of RP. I personally don't really care how my character ends up, as long as s(he)'s developed decently along the way. It makes it fun for me.


Character Flaws - I don't know how people are now, but character flaws are really fun in my opinion. It's much more difficult to RP out a character with a flaw than one without, especially a flaw which you don't have irl. I've also had some amazing times RPing with people who played their chars with distinct flaws, or not so distinct sometimes, also. I don't think everyone should RP chars that are majorly flawed, but even a stutter can be amusing to try and RP out. Accents are fun, too. Just something different that makes you think and really get into the mindset of the character you are roleplaying as.

Dynamic Characters - I don't really know how things are now, but I think a good mix of dynamic and static characters are good. Some characters do good being relatively static. Some people like that, too. It would get boring if there were too many static characters and it would get really confusing if everyone was dynamic about everything, but a good mix is probably the best.

[Arcana]

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I have always liked the idea of apparent ages. One thing that I absolutely hate is the all-too-common 1000+ year old elf poorly RPed by someone who's like 19 irl, which is also readily apparent in game. If I were the RP police, I'd make everyone apply to me for pre-approval of a character like that to make sure they were in fact competent to play it believeably.

Wow, I'm really bitter about things, aren't I? That's probably because I'm a Kuja alt.

And yes, that description of Sir Robert sounds very familiar, right down to the lack of fashion sense. Let that be a lesson to everyone about the dangers of marrying too young in life. UO's first no-fault divorce.

[Ishtar]

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In regards to scripted RP etc, if anyone is going to have a plot that involves other people, it is polite to discuss it OOC anyway. I mean if you have plots to rob and pillage it is respectful to let the people in that city know if it is possible OOC wise. It should allow the flexibility of spontaneous roleplay to exist in the boundaries of the agreed upon terms. I think communication is essential and unfortunetly a lot of us as a whole have become lax in that aspect.

Role play should be fun, for plots I feel some structure is needed. Spontaneous stuff should be spontaneous, but not godmoded, metagamed or forced. There is a very thin line between forced RP and spontaneous RP. In reality now all characters will like a spontaneous event, and they should react IC accordingly.
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"Knowledge is not information, it's transformation."
-Osho-
Atlantic Shard News Reporter

[Toni McStravick]

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I like both scripted and non-scripted rp.
Non-scripted gives you the spur-of-the-moment excitement where you never know what will happen. Such as the unmentional incident with a chicken. (Sorry Ditto, if Toni doesn't come around you when you have chicken friends with you, she kinda has a ...umm... well chickens give her a bad memory...those that remember, just hush up the lot of yas)
Scripted rp does give a goal for some, and it is cool when people party you to ask your permission to do things to your character (which the chicken thing was unscripted but no Toni's were seriously harmed or disfigured during that incident)
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Lady Toni McStravick-Skyfire
Knights of Clan McStravick


Davaran: What's the most romantic wood?

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss

[Ditto Armunn]

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Hehe, it's np, Toni. I'll still luvs ya even if you don't like my chickens.

I did sound totally 100% against scripted rp there. lol For a plot idea, yes, you do need a basic story/goal outline for everyone involved. I just have a big dislike for heavily scripted stuff.
(sorry, outline & scripted are a bit different in my opinion. My bad for not being more clear).

Polite ooc heads up are good in a few situations. I'd be up for just about anything on Ditto, but some of it, I think might need an ooc warning or asking if I'm ok w/ something. I'm "ok" with just about anything outside of my charcter's being vanquished or killed off outright. Some have more lines they won't cross, and frankly I don't blame them a bit. Better to ask if your unsure, especially for limb removals, vanquish, and death.

Forced rp......I see that as it involving someone that I've told I do not want anything to do with ig at all contantly trying to rp w/ me or, like doing something to one's character w/o permission that could/would have lasting or permanent results, or using rp to try to grief a guild.
I know that a small few will even call a conversation or simple (normal) attack/assualt as Forced RP,but I really don't understand how, if it has rp reasoning behind it then it's rp, and thats what we're all here to do. I've never really gotten that. It normally seems to come from people who either don't know how to rp out of a situation, or who can't back up their rp so I guess then, thats when I tend to avoid alot of rp interraction with those that do that. It's just no fun to try to rp w/ someone who wants to bite your head off about everything you rp by using the term, Forced RP.
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The Dark Lady, Ditto Armunn, D|O -(hawk# 232286048 )
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Quote: "Oh Great! First I get stabbed and now I'm bleeding!" - Ditto
[quote="Tarothin Armunn"]I know and I have mood swings like a pregnant woman at times. :/ I'm very random.[/quote]

[Yolen Grath]

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Scripted vs. Spontaneous

I think scripted RP is necessary for large plots and storyline starters, something to get the ball rolling and then to keep it rolling. Spontaneous RP is best used in story tangents or fleshing out a story (avoiding going into epic RP, keeping it small).

So then, for examples...

First, Scripted
To begin a large storyline RP, I believe it is necessary to contact all who want to be involved and go over, OOC, the ins and outs of what they want to do. If the storyline stagnates, or gets off track, I believe said parties need to get together again and replot the course.

As for Spontaneous
I believe spontaneous RP should only concern immediate interactions without world changing significance (this idea changing if the parties involved wish to turn the RP into a larger storyline, then revert back to previous point). The chars involved may have changed slightly to one another for better or for worse... but it shouldn't have an affect on the rest of the world. I'm a huge fan of small-time RP used to flesh out how a char experiences another char or the world of Britannia itself ie. Yolen can't stand the innkeeper at the Inn because of their onion breath and warns everyone who mentions staying there. No significance to the rest of the world... but helps to define my chars experience with the world around him.

These are my opinions... and they are most likely wrong, but I enjoy them

As to the other questions... I don't have a particular stance...
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"Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on rainy sunday afternoon." - Susan Ertz

[Thrax]

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[Cal Hurst]

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Thanks for all the answers, guys. And thanks to those who ICQ'd me and told me they really enjoyed answering them, and they wish more threads were like this one.

<3
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[Miss Rhiannon]

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Large scale plots should be semi-planned by the head peeps involved.

That being said, I love, love, love spontaneous roleplay. The most fun I have is when one of my characters is chilling in town chatting it up with folks. This is when their personalities really come out to play. Nothing like some good improv.

Character flaws - the first several months of my role play experience Lee was a superwoman - or superelf rather (*sticks tongue out at Samon*). That got boooooring. So, I'm working on some things for her...I also made Rhiannon so I could design a more complex character from scratch. It is new and experimental for me, so it helped me to get the ball rolling by rp'ing them with each other on the boards. Which is okay because I dig the story telling.

Why do I think some people do not like giving their characters flaws:

Flaws make our characters vulnerable - really vulnerable if rp'ing with one of those "flawless" characters. So, just got to stick your neck out there.
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aka - Brittany Tyven

I have only been married once. That was in consequence of a misunderstanding between myself and a young person.
-"Lane" in The Importance of Being Ernest

[Eldan D`Ardan]

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If I was developing a plot I would outline it like an earlier post said. "Scripting" sounds like every last word will be set from the begining. I like to think of it as a series of benchmarks. I would organize it into acts.

Leave the outcomes undecided, but plan for a few different possible outcomes. Because thats ultimately what the plot is about. Letting others shape the story. You should have an idea of the different possibilities and as the plot writer plan for all of them.

An example would be opening a story with things that are hinting to it. And making these events publicized enough so other know there is a plot going on. When people bite and start interacting with the plot eventually they will come to the end of the first part. At the first benchmark of the story when a reaction, wether planned for or not occurs that is big enough to cause the plot writer to continue the story through to benchmark two, three etc etc...
I would prefer to take the story in steps, rather than planning it all out. because obviously as people take part in it and make decisions on what to do in the story, its going to shift wether you want it to or not.
A tentative timeline or possible time lines is useful. Plots require planning, but the outright "scripting" of them is almost impossible and incorrectly used I think.

Maybe it would be better to call it "guided" rp. Or administered roleplay. Since I don't think anyone really scripts the entire thing out.

[Quintin Flynn]

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I've always viewed scripted RP a lot like pro wrestling.

A. There is a defined good guy (or team) and bad guy (or team) going head to head

B. The final outcome is predecided, and there is nothing any player can do about it. If they did try to change things, they'd probably get fired.

C. While the outcome is known, the small details filling in the plot points are hazy.


I'm not trying to say I'm against scripted, it jsut has to be dealt with correctly. For instince, instead of "[OOC] We are going to attack your city next week. Be ready.", leave a dramatic sign, written in blood posted to their door way, or send some hapless slave to send the message for you. Once you send the ultimatium, then ICQ or something, and set some ground rules(once your dead, youre dead; No looting; etc...). There are plenty of ways to start a scripted plot without really going out of character. Myself, I try to start spont. RP whenever I can. If I get yelled for it, then I know that person doesn't have the spirit of the UO and I leave them alone.



As for Flaws, I think it's not jsut any one reason why a bunch of people don't have any. I think it comes down to...

A. People don't think that much into their character. Don't take the time to realize this is supposed to be a separete person from themselves.

B. They are not creative enough.

C. Simply never took the time, or had the resources.

D. People don't like being flawed. Everyone wants to be the greatest whoever lived, reknown throughout the lands, and so on.

EDIT: Hopefully this post will encourage people to try spontRP more, and be more flawed.
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When asked of the future...
The foolish man worries of impending tragedy.
The wise man accepts what he can not change.
The stubborn man attempts to dam the River of Life.
Quintin Flynn laughs and sneaks off with the foolish man's purse.

[Arlin]

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Aww you guys make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. <3.

As for playing a flawed character, all I can say is it was infinitely more fun than playing someone perfect. Arlin was a bit of a stock character in the oafish brute with a heart of gold sense, but I think I tweaked him enough over the years to make him my own.

Spontaneous roleplay...I think it is the only way to go. Arlin as a character was made completely on the fly, becoming a mercenary by simply being the right place at the right time. And the whole Arcana/Arlin story arc started with me nagging Arcy to meet me at Stormhaven for a beer. No plotting, no predetermined decisions. The fact that the story itself was alive, directed not only by the three players but the community itself. I go back and read the stories every now and then when I need some good inspiration.

Having a good character is about more than background info and vital stats. The ability to interact on the fly is what a good character needs. What seperates your character from every other Johnny Do-Good or Jimmy Gone Bad?

And Vaen drop me a line on this NWN2 server...I'm bored.
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As the fire fades to night, remember always the ember that started it all.