Atlantic Roleplay Community Boards

[Molly]

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Humor me here for just a little bit.

The two ideas can run in tandem and will work beautifully together to expand and improve our community.

I offer up here the words of the Charter of the Consensus. The Representatives of the League of Nations would make up the member base for the Consensus. They would not have to meet in game but could utilize the chat on these forums for their meetings. The ingame portion I would like to suggest it be in Skara Brae as that is the only truely neutral city in the realm. The Community Center provided by the powers that be would make an ideal ingame meeting hall for us and would expose others to our exsistance.

Please take a serious look and consider what a great improvement this would make to our current situaton.


The Charter of the Consensus
Written by the Dark Priest, Bal-Anon Dak

In the area of character portrayal and acting, no endeavor sees as many failures and difficulties as theater, where the coordination of actors and events is incredibly complex and fraught with miss-fires.

Role-playing communities are no different. Those who have been down the path of trying to organize the activities of people involved in a story will no doubt recall a painful process in which the egos of many needed to balanced with the goal of a particular plot-line. This is especially prevalent in the online community.

In fact, these difficulties are doubly evident in an environment where people do not see each other and communicate solely through the use of Internet. Imagine trying to coordinate a play in which you could only type out your instructions to the cast. On a large scale the problem becomes enormous.

In the online world of Ultima and others, one feeling resounds in the hearts of all who aspire to a deeper experience in the virtual world other than the thrill of monster bashing and Player to Player combat. It is the inevitable dread of losing the story under the crushing weight of events that constantly conspire to interfere with your most carefully crafted plots. Be it the individual who thinks its funny you are acting and heckles you every step of your way, or the in-opportune happening that totally ruins the most important element of your plot, or simply the lack of interest evidenced by those who previously could not give you enough praise for the storyline you had created.

Those of us who role-play have all been there. For us, living here in the realm of Atlantic, it has been as if for years the entire world conspired to tie us down into depths of mediocrity. But we are an assembly of guilds and people who have striven and succeeded. What unites us is the irrepressible knowledge that we can succeed. What bonds us is the certainty that we share a common goal. For in us, the story lives and will always live.

We are The Consensus, a coalition of guilds of all alignments, dedicated to one purpose alone: the betterment of the story. Together we pool our ideas and resources, ever striving for an end in which we have satisfied our creative urges, an end that happily will never come.

If you and yours share this direction and are seeking for kindred spirits, join us. You will find them here. If your interests lie elsewhere, such is the nature of humanity and far be it for us to tell you otherwise. We have few rules and require only your interest and ear.

This Charter refers to the Consensus rules that we live by here in this community and the only thing missing currently is a focus for us here as there was in the days of the Consensus. I have highlighted the paragraph that we must remember in our hearts and that would be the underlying purpose for both the League of Nations and our direction here together.
_________________
Grand Duchess Molly Kaldhel
Oracle of Truth
The House Gauntlet
Sanctus, Luna, Malas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXoGDbJ5nLU
_______________________
"In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man. If you want anything done, ask a woman."
-Margaret Thatcher-

[Teh Glouris Lrod Kujabis]

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Only thing I have to say is that, in every interesting book, in every quality story I've read, the story follows heroes and maybe less heroic but somewhat entertaining characters. You are proposing more government and politics? Politicians are not heroes nor are they entertaining; Politics are not heroic or for anyones entertainment. I think Atlantic needs interesting roleplay at this point, not structive and government.

My two cents. I think you've got enough of my two cents posts at this point to have earned about $102. Maybe if everyone starts listening to my ranting you'll get rich.

[Ceinwyn ab'Arawn]

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Molly, what exactly are you presenting here?

Is it another proposal for a new form of regency? A new consensus like what Luna and Sanctus have, but in Trammel lands? I'm sorry but I've never even heard of this Consensus before. Does it mean YET MORE OOC meetings?? *puke*


As of right now, this part of the community is too corrupt by select egomaniacs OOC to even try something like this.

If something like this were to be put in effect, it would be time to set standards. Personally, I'd like to have a set standard as to what constitutes a roleplay guild, in the first place.

Secondly, we also need to put a standard into place that triggers the ignoring or banning from the community. Griefing, PK, harassment. Many people think these are already in place. But, if they are, why do we still have people supporting those that grief?

We don't need yet another ooc meeting with a purpose. We can simply adapt some of the elements of what you proposed into the already standing "official" ARPC guilds, not just any old Felucca Joe who comes and posts and griefs on the boards, but the ones who actually agree and uphold to the rules.

[Leshok Majere]

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[Drayden Calamyr]

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Thats what this is all about isn't it? Standards?
The TARP seeks to do just that, just no one wanted to listen.
As Ceinwyn stated, too many egomaniacs.
Standardizing the guild community is the PATH to change. Does it mean everyone has to do what someone says? Yes, just for once that might be a necessity.

If you're honesltly interested in what TARP is all about, you can contact me directly. VIA ICQ or PM. Trust me, it involves what is being discussed here, but in a less political sense.

[Ceinwyn ab'Arawn]

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WTF is TARP? Never heard of it, either. I hate hate hate politics. *gags*

I have been saying the same thing about standards for over a year or so now. Noone ever listens...

[Teh Glouris Lrod Kujabis]

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Cein- Couldn't agree more. You said a lot that I was thinking, but I just don't care to open that can of worms these days because nobody seems to listen when I do.

Leshok- I stand corrected.

Drayden- Ability to uphold existing standards, lack of double standards, common sense, respect, clarifications, and a universal desire to improve the quality and fun of roleplay on Atlantic, whether or not is is your fun and quaity you are working to improve, or someone/everyone elses. I think this is what the community needs right now, not just additional standards, and I really doubt that whatever TARP is covers all of those and can accomplish them. Sorry, years of this community lead me to believe it is nearly impossible at best to get even one of the above done, make it stick, and keep drama from tainting them, let alone accomplish all in one shot.

[Drayden Calamyr]

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Doubt all you want to Kuja. When everything is defined and laid for everyone see, then everyone can make their own choice. As for now, throw whatever judgements you might have out the window, since you honestly don't know anything about it.

I will give Cein a bit of credit, at least she didn't shoot something down she didn't know anything about "WTF is TARP" is what I would expect, hehhe.

TARP is prehaps one of the most ambitious RP projects Atlantic has seen. It has people who have been in UO Atlantic RP(those will remain nameless) for a very long time. This project is not something to add to the current way things are done. It is another way to look at RP in general, and WILL do what you stated above.

Will TARP make everyone happy? Probably not. There's no "perfect" solution to how RP is conducted and regulated. But I do admit, it should be regulated in a OOC sense more so then it is now.

I'm not talking about "adding on" to what I consider broken and outdated.
I don't want to debate or elaborate on anything yet, since this Project is barely off the ground. But from a conceptual point of view it could work. If people gave it a chance. The only difference now is that rather than people feeling like they are being forced into it, they will have the option of electing to be involved with the project, and add their input to the system that we have in mind.

With that being said. I'm not trying to be a flamer or lame or anything. I just want people to know that there is something in the works that EVERYONE will have the opportunity to take part in.

I'm going to end this post before we go too far off topic. Bottom line, if you want to know more and give this a chance, then contact me. If not, then don't worry yourselves with it. If you're happy roleplaying the way things are then there's not a problem.
But if you feel like you want to be part of building something then go for it, talk to me, all ideas will be considered from any party that wishes to be involved in this.

[Arcana]

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I was a longtime RPer on Atlantic, and I no longer play so I am not sure if my opinion here will be welcome. But, we have all been talking about change for years and years, so I will try to offer it respectfully nonetheless because I do have a great love for this community and the fun I once had here. This reply isn't just about Molly's post here. However, her efforts to organize this community over the years made me feel I need to post something - in a way its in support of her personally and the people like her, though not her particular proposal (which I think is a bad idea... sorry, Molly <3).

I recently thought about coming back to UO for RP. Years ago I made proposals for change that went nowhere, so I eventually just quit (as so many others have done in frustration), but there is no online substitue for RP in UO at its best. Having read the forums regularly for a couple of weeks now, I have decided not to come back. The same problems in the RP community that caused me to quit over 2 years ago are still very apparent to me now even as an outsider.

There have been so many haphazard lore introductions over the years, that people have no point of reference anymore. Magic and strange races and gods run around all over the place to the extent that those things aren't even remarkable or special anymore. Its a free-for-all fantasy game and things just don't make sense. That imo, is what drives so much of the OOC confusion and strife.

And another political band-aid (IC or OOC) won't fix it.

I will also add that the League of Nations was formed in the real world after WWI to prevent another world war. That term is so loaded with real world history that is just cannot fit into a RP context of medieval/rennaisance fantasy.

I honestly think the best thing that could ever happen to Atlantic RP is a complete reboot of all characters and history. Start from scratch. Really start the RP over from the point where the game is now and really think about what would (and shoud) happen in the contect of a RP game happening in an Ultima world as it exists right now. Look at the long history of Atlantic RP and keep the good parts of it as legends... OES for example, now gone, becomes a myth or a fairy tale. I think things as they are now are too broken to fix, and there are too many "additions" to the game lore that were done poorly. After a reboot, and new additions need to be carefully thought out by a community consensus.

I'm not going to go through specific examples because I don't think it'll be productive, but I bet many people that still play or still lurk know the kind of things I'm talking about.

While I'm making impossible suggestions, it would also be nice if all the blood fueds that have fractured the community could truly be set aside and never arise again. Statements like this: "people who have been in UO Atlantic RP(those will remain nameless) for a very long time" (my empahsis) should never have to be made. Its really, really sad that things have to be like that. As long as that kind of mistrust and hate is out there, things here will *never* get better. If you can't let go after all this time, you need to quit because there is absoultely nothing positive about an environment where people feel like they can't even make their names public in association with something for fear of it getting flamed.

And yes, absolutely whatever happens the path to change is everyone agreeing to do what someone else says.... "RP police" for lack of a better word. It is needed.

Edit: and if you want any idea of how long this topic has been around, just go to the back of the Sage Tower forum and you'll see this stuff from back in '04. On the previous Atlantic boards there was stuff from when I started in 2000, and it probably went back to 1997 .

[Teh Glouris Lrod Kujabis]

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[Arcana]

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Kuja, I actually think you and I have a good amount of common ground with Drayden. The difference is that I believe you and I would both stick to working within the existing Atlantic framework on these boards and Drayden is proposing to launch something new.

In his defense though, with a strict RP enforcement type of set up, you will inevitably have to "remove" some bad RPers who just don't fit, the same as you'd kick someone who won't obey the rules from a guild. So, its not necessairily a bad thing that he's looking at a new setup from the outside. It does give you more control. Also, he acknowledges that there are things that need fixing in a very major way, and that is a good realization to have.

Personally I feel that any change needs to have the bulk of the "official" Atlantic community on board for it to be viable.

[Halister Marner]

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I think whatever we are doing now is fine.

We are fielding as many roleplayers during events and storylines as we did several years ago when UO's subscription base was twice as large, an impressive testament to the fact that our current path is the correct one.

The ARPC rules and guidelines we have listed here match up quite well to FAR's, and between the two rulesets we have something that all guilds on Atlantic can agree upon.

I believe the question here is if we want another TWP like system, which I believe right now, is something that we want to ease into if we do.

The past few months there have been innumerable amounts of returning players trying to start OOC projects, communities, and systems. The innovation in itself is good, but for something like the TWP to work, it needs the consensus of the ENTIRE community, not just a few.

Isolated systems and rulesets end up becoming rogue communities in themselves, which eventually lead to more isolated roleplay and more segregation of the roleplay community. A full consensus of roleplayers is always needed to start a system off, and despite all the great ideas and startup projects being created now, I believe very few are representative of the interests of the entire community of roleplayers on Atlantic.

To Drayden personally, I can only suggest that before you begin implementing all these new systems, you get to know the roleplayers and roleplay community, understand where people are, their thoughts and vision of where the community is going, as well as all the intricate plots, relationships and landscapes of the Atlantic roleplay community. This is only something that can be experienced first hand, and not by word of mouth.

We've seen too many returning players (I am guilty of this myself, but I learned this lesson) trying to reform Atlantic roleplay to their visions, and are met with opposition and protests. As time goes by, the mindset of the community changes, the wants and needs of that community change, and until we understand the community inside and out, we can never truly change it. When we finally do understand it, make friends with its members, and become involved in character and out, we rarely find the need for that change.
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"There are those who dream to escape reality, and there are those who dream to change it."

[Isk]

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I agree with Halister and want to subscribe to his newsletter.

[Molly]

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My appologies for not responding right away. I have had a death in my extended family and I have not had an opportunity to read over all your questions thoroughly. I will do so hopefully this evening.
_________________
Grand Duchess Molly Kaldhel
Oracle of Truth
The House Gauntlet
Sanctus, Luna, Malas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXoGDbJ5nLU
_______________________
"In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man. If you want anything done, ask a woman."
-Margaret Thatcher-

[Malo]

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A proposal has been made to form an organization to represent all members of the
community and their guilds and would oversee disputes and the rules of the community.

It is now being seen by some as totally revamping the whole community, it’s rules, the
definition of Role Play, and the entire history of the community.

When UO first started there was only Felucca. EA lost customers because people didn’t
like the rule set where they could be killed and stolen from at random. So they started
Trammel where it was safe. Unfortunately that made for very limited play and you had to
be warred to interact. Out of that grew the idea of guilds warring each other for
interaction but not really war. That required a set of rules for interaction. No looting No
drobing No KOS etc.
The designers of the game had no intention of there being such rules or such conventions
as warred but not at war. Naturally this has led to some problems but none of them have
been insurmountable and are usually handled well by the GMs. What truly creates
problems is trying to change the game mechanics by not allowing the use of some skills
or items or introducing concepts that can’t be done in game at all.

Then we get into what is RP?. Is it necessary to be part of semi-scripted scenario being
played out to be considered an RPer?.. or is just being in character considered RP? A
good many people try to write scripts and scenarios to control the game but unfortunately
most of them are not playwrights so the scenarios are poorly conceived, go nowhere and
are senseless. Then they get pissed because people don’t want to be in their “play”. None
the less, they have the idea that is what makes RP.

It has also been suggested that to form this new organization would require erasing
history...What a concept. Personally I would resent anyone erasing parts of my memory
which, of course, is where I store history. As for history on the ARPC boards, well, the
forum board is not UO. In fact the vast majority of it is not even RP and in any event,
large parts are erased anyway.

The point is this. It was a simple concept and now people have made it far to involved.
Keep it simple. If you don’t want to be part of it, that is fine but don’t try to
overcomplicate it.
_________________
Guildmaster of the Legion of Honor
You get more with a polite word and a sword than with just a polite word
"The most merciful thing in the world is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents"- H.P. Lovecraft