Atlantic Roleplay Community Boards

Teh Glouris Lrod Kujabis · Transcendent Spammer Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 5740

Firstly, a pre-disclaimer. This is not meant for LOL I HATE TALON I BASH HIS IDEAS or LOL ARPC SUXXORZ I DRAMA UR SHIZ. You asked for feedback, I give feedback, as I am a roleplayer capable of playing good aligned characters.

Tay Thormear · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject:

Mallory Ventrue · Lore Master Joined: 29 Nov 2004 Posts: 1139

I am responding to this as well. And unlike some of you tend to think, I am not here to start drama.

The idea has merit. As Greyskull has said, there has to be a lot of work done before it should be attempted, but that being said, a lot of good could come from something such as this, if it were implemented correctly and there was no favortisim or bias involved.

As for isolation, I agree with Porthos. It isn't so much isolation of guilds in whole, so much as it is removal from unwanted and unneeded ooc drama. There are only a few people I don't care to associate with, but that doesn't mean I am ignoring entire guilds. I have never told anyone to not roleplay with someone else, in fact it is often the other way. I let people make their own judgements and I don't tell people who other people's alts are.
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Lady LaBelle · Adventurer Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 84

A side note for Beowulf.
The necessity for OOC feedback is a cause in itself for these drama's you speak of...In essence, would you care to know that there are more Role Players who care less for what is going on OOC, and concern themselves not with it, then there are otherwise...Perhaps it is us whose opinions should be considered, perhaps those of us who are not concerned with your OOC Drama's would enjoy such political presentations, such decision making, such discussion, IC.

Ditto Armunn · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject:

Genna · Adventurer Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 57

I think it is a great idea. For those that want to try it, have a gathering and throw out the OOC garbage. Phoenix Knights of Yew are a small guild and would be nice to have a RP gathering of like thinkers.
Not sure about the alliance in game mechanics but RP wise it sounds like something that would make RP sense. Small bands gather together to defend their way of life.
I'm sure everyone has thought about it at one time or another but didnt put it out there for OOC reasons.
For those interested , go for it. For those that are not interested , thats fine too.
Play the game the way it suits you and let others play theirs.
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Talon Skyfire · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject:

Thanks everyone for the feedback. We're starting to get somewhere.

Mith, Beo, LaBelle, Mallory, thanks for the input.

We've went from a bare bones proposal at the beginning of this thread, which was all it was meant to be.

Now we're entering the "fleshing it out" phase.

I will try to answer as many of your questions as I can. Please keep in mind none of this is set in stone and can be changed by the involved parties. My proposal is merely a base for this idea. The final version will be a product of everyone involved.

Ditto Armunn · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject:

Question:
Do you think the voting would be for the guildleaders, or for every Lightbringer?
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Quote: "Oh Great! First I get stabbed and now I'm bleeding!" - Ditto
[quote="Tarothin Armunn"]I know and I have mood swings like a pregnant woman at times. :/ I'm very random.[/quote]

Vanya Thenidiel · Adventurer Joined: 27 Dec 2006 Posts: 44

I think the idea for RP purposes is a good one....I'm up for hearing more Very Happy

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NOT Malorn · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject:

I like the idea. I don't think it my place to really say more (something about glass stones in a house or whatever) but I think this could lend to a lot of productivity if it is proactively handled as it has been so far. And Ditto, you're right. Everything that has been going on -can- be forgotten and swept out the front door instead of under the carpet. I see no reason why we can't simply let it go and try and turn over a new leaf.

Isk · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject:

No intention to be pessimistic.

I agree with the many shades of good statement Mith made above since my guild is full of virtuous people who hate non-humans. Clearly we would not be involved with this but I have a few concerns.

Being someone who likes to play the politics angle IG/IC I can see various strategies that could be used in a massive alliance system that would have it implode on itself like a dying star. The first thing that would happen is that voting alliances would be formed, certain guilds that always vote together would inevitably gain the animosity of others when they start pushing for certain measures or backing themselves for positions. Inevitable fallout would occur even though things are happening IC. ICQs and ooc means of communication would kick in to cause havoc as people try to figure out who is doing what next meeting. If alliance chat is not turned off issues will be brought up in key moments of meetings, disagreements etc… that will take away from IC discussion and result in long moments of silence on screen as people chatter it up on alliance. Ghosts and spies would begin to act inside the alliance, gathering information on wrong doing as fodder for outing guilds.

Aside from this such alliances have a way of morphing into things there were not supposed to be in the first place. Jurisdictions will be blurred.

As for questions:

What is the first IC step that would be taken to establish this ‘Confederacy’? because the one to ‘come up with it' IC is likely to be voted in as the first leader IMHO.

Halister Marner · **Site Programmer** Joined: 05 Oct 2006 Posts: 2232

For once, I will save my usual drawn out prose and simply state the base of my thoughts...

There is a lot of good information and insightful comments in this thread, and I feel the majority of my concerns have already been addressed by other posters. Your original idea has a good base to it, work on refining it and adapting it based on the feedback you have received here.

Keep it's intentions pure, keep grudges, hatred and arguments aside when it is founded, and the chances of it's success are elevated a thousand fold.

I cannot simply predict how successful or unsuccessful the idea will be, if someone asked me several years ago during the Regencies founding if it would be alive this day, I would have resoundingly said no, however as an organization it still exists to this day.

We cannot predict the future, if the idea is based off the most noble of intentions, and you do all that you can to ensure it's success, then only the passage of time can predict its destiny.

The sum of my insights is simply this: Initiate the idea, if it fails, it fails, if it succeeds, it succeeds.
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Ditto Armunn · Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:54 am Post subject:

I see Not Trying as doing nothing. And so far, doing nothing, has gotten us no where in the past.

True, this might not end up being what we all want it to be, but we won't know unless we try.

We would have to leave some things to simple, Trust, I know. There could be a "police ourselves" system involved that we could try...Meaning, if one of us sees another beginning to drag ooc drama into important issues, we could learn to speak up and ask a simple polite question "Do you think maybe your character is doing this out of your player anger?" Or, "Do you think most others might see your character's actions as an ooc revenge thing?"
We aren't perfect people. We don't play perfect characters...I hope. Many mistakes will be made, but let's have fun working together making those mistakes and solving them, instead of looking for the blame in them.

The key thing for some to learn in a self-police system would be the difference between Speaking Up and Gossiping. If the leaders don't listen, then yes, there will be failure, and rightly deserved. But we really won't know, unless we try. Besides, it's a game, and trying something that might benefit us all is about as much of a waste of time as playing or posting on these boards is anyway.
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The Dark Lady, Ditto Armunn, D|O -(hawk# 232286048 )
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Quote: "Oh Great! First I get stabbed and now I'm bleeding!" - Ditto
[quote="Tarothin Armunn"]I know and I have mood swings like a pregnant woman at times. :/ I'm very random.[/quote]

Lord Fong · Sage Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 706 Location: Moonglow

Alright, time for my two cents...not that it probably means much.
The Idea itself is good in its current state....on paper, But much like the Socalist movement that will probably be as far as it goes. (for those who are uninformed socalism works quite well and seems like a great idea for a system of government on paper but once its put into motion and the human factor is added...well you can look at cuba and the Soviets for the results.) Personally I think we would need to make bigger strives as a community in general before we can precure a new light bringer council....We have the regency and there sandbox, We had RCL but that went down in a fireball of drama (no offense)...And it was all because of the human factor, people get pissed off and decided "Whatever, i'll do what I want with my 13 bucks a month and you can't say crap." Well this mindset needs to be thrown out.

You pay 13 bucks a month to play UO...13 bucks a month to RP with the people you have gotten to known over the years and the guild mates that are just as close as any of your real life friends....So if you pay 13 dollars a month to RP, why wouldn't you want to be a part of a single...strong..and growing community? Why would you want to put yourself and your guild mates through the constent drama?

My opinon, as an IC thing...Bad idea, we need to work together to resolve all of the OOC issues in the community before we go on a 2-3 alliance shard wide system...people would be freaking out and leaving...not to mention dropping and rewarring whenever a new guild is added to the alliance...We need to become a united community before we can move on into somthing of this nature but its a step in the right direction.

EDIT: Also as for which guild would lead the alliance...a new guild could be crated and alts from all the GMs could be put into it, This gives us a fair voting system (as long as a group of people don't get all survivor on us) and a chance for everyone to have a complete say in the final desisons of the alliance. (this would also lessen the burden on the alliance leader...that persons poor messanger bird would never get a break)
Course it would have to be ooc...
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Poshe · Adventurer Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 36

The following is a suggestion followed by a statement from me directed to certain individuals. They know who they are and thus don't need to be named.

Uniting the guilds of light is possible. Regardless of opinion or situation. let me start off by saying the following:

"Unite or fall"

No truer words were ever spoken. Lets face the facts here. The guilds of darkness have united. What does this mean to us? That as long as we remain splintered, disorganized and at each others throats, we will continue to see defeat after defeat.

In order for any "Confederation" (I use this term as a substitute for what ever name the alliance comes up with) of like minded guilds to come together, that confederation HAS to be inclusive to all light bringer guilds and exclusive enough to keep the evil guilds out. For each guild that is represented, it would have to be based on a Democracy. Equal representation for the win!

For the above statement, we will have to define what is good and what is considered an evil act and allow a majority vote to decide what is what.

Let us focus on a situation here a moment. A Confederation has no one of absolute power overseeing it. If you wish to model this alliance after a confederacy, then lets look back during the revolutionary days of the 13 colonies. Each Colony had its own council with an elected speaker to run the proceedings. When the revolutionary war began, The Colonies decided for themselves whether or not to get involved. It wasn't until they levied money to pay for the Continental Army that they really became a true Confederation.

What is my point you ask? At no point should there be a ruler of this alliance or confederation. NO ABSOLUTE POWER should be bestowed to any one individual.

So how do we get this confederacy of light guilds to work? It is simple enough to know that each guild of light is allowed to send one representative to such meetings. Every issue involving th confederacy as a whole should be voted upon by its members. Issues that only involve select guilds within that confederacy should limit a vote to those guilds involved.

Now, for organizations sake, we will need a speaker. Someone with good people skills, Grammar skills, and well liked by most guilds if not all who become part of this confederacy. This person is generally elected to act as speaker and provides the agenda for each meeting. Guilds who wish to bring up an issue to be included in the agenda would have their representative present theirissues to the speaker so it may be included on the agenda. Should the speaker need to clearify, he/she can give the floor to the representative in question and allow them to elaborate.

The Speaker has no power other than to create an agenda. Once the Agenda is covered, the floor is open to the Representatives who may bring up issues that were not covered by the agenda. If such issues warrant another meeting, then they will be placed on the agenda for next meeting.

Also, We will need an assistant speaker (incase the Speaker is unable to attend). This is generally the runner up.

Speakers are nominated. Representatives may not nominate themselves to become speakers. Nominations must be second in order to be approved.

So why this system? Simple enough. It eliminates the need for larger meetings and gives no one person any form of absolute power (The Speaker can easily be voted out and replaced by a majority vote) over this so called confederacy.

further more, these meetings can happen in a secure and private setting without the forces of darkness knowing about its intentions in character.

How would a meeting assemble?

All it takes is for a meeting is to have an agenda. The meeting can happen at any location and it should change locations often. A representative needs only to speak with the speaker and ask for a session to take place. The Speaker will determine the time and place of the meeting. It is the job of the speaker to anounce the meeting's location and time to all guilds involved in the Confederacy.

What if that guild Representative can't make a meeting?

Not to worry, a guild is still allowed a vote. Thus, anyone the guild sends is considered a representative. However, only one member of that guild may vote. In order for your vote to count, you must wear the tags of your guild. Having another guild vote for your guild will not be permitted. If your guild isn't present for voting, your guild abstains from any voting.

So how will this Confederacy rule a unified army?

Like in the civil war, Each state in the confederacy funded regiments. Each Regiment fell under the joint confederate government and was then sent off to war. It would be no different for us in this case. Each guild would represent a regiment of sorts.

We can do this a number of ways:

1st: Each guild should send atleast one person but may send more to serve in an organized unit that is created for this purpose. (Ideal since all anyone would have to do is war one guild and it keeps those unwilling to war safe and out of harms way.)

2nd: Each guild could send a number of volenteers when the need arises and just accept the war invites themselves. (This is the usual option as it involves more guild members without them having to change guilds)

3rd: One guild could be chosen among the members of the confederacy to act as the guardian guild of the cenfederacy. This would be the primary guild that would perform the needs of guards and the services of an army. (Warning, this method will result in that guild choosing its own officers)

These are just a few of the many ways the confederacy can raise an army.

Now, on to more personal matters.

Some of us (this involves myself as well) may have an issue with certain people participating in something of this magnitude.

I only have this to say: We will have to set our differences aside to make this work folks. You don't have to like me to RP with me. But I do ask that you treat me with dignity both in game and out. You may notice I did not ask for your respect. I feel you are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to my own. But, I can look the other way if you can. If you cannot let go of the animosity, the grudges or the hatred, then don't bother replying to this post or getting involved. This organization needs those willing to help build it, not tear it down.

With all that said, I hope you all take into consideration what we are trying to do here. The hand of peace is extended. It is offered with no conditions, stipulations or apologies. The choice is yours.