Seventh Yew Town Council Meeting

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Latest revision as of 01:29, 25 December 2007

Seventh Yew Town Council Meeting Yew Town Council Hall, 29-Jan-99

Gargish Dragon: Anyway, the meeting is about to start

Vargen: I was going to propose a general election in 2 weeks. We'll need to elect a new Millitia Captian anyway should I put it on hold? This might give us enough time to wait for ballot boxes...

Gargish Dragon: We will need to elect a Mayor too

Thrawn: heheh yeah, might as well put it on hold I would say

Gargish Dragon: Oh, I think the ballot boxes should be in in 2 weeks, but we shouldnt need to depend on ballot boxes anyway

Vargen: well, if we'll be needing both then I guess we go ahead

Gargish Dragon: we did the Justice election without

Vargen: yes, but they would make things easier *nod*

Lori: true...but would be a great 1st test run...general elections

Gargish Dragon: I hope we can get ballot boxes locked in here

Thrawn: we should be able to

Vargen: I betcha we'd have Designer Dragon talking about us all over the place if we did run general elections with them

Gargish Dragon: *grins* Anyway, I am not sure if I will be candidate for Mayor

Thrawn: *gasp*

Vargen: really?

Lori: *teary eye'd*

Gargish Dragon: Well, we will see

zenda: why not?

Lori: well we can't let OES get that seat in office

Thrawn: exactly what I was going to say Lori

Gargish Dragon: right now I didnt have that much time to dedicate to the Council, not as much as I'd like to

Jovar: They tried hard enough for the Justice position.

Lori: indeed

Thrawn: heh, and they almost got it Treadeau was sure he had

Gargish Dragon: I'm afflicted with the same disease as Keuldan

Reg LeCrisp: was that necromancer fellow from OES?

Thrawn: was quite funny watching him brag about his victory for the last hour of voting

Jovar: It was touch and go right up to the last few votes

Reg LeCrisp: ah ok

Jovar: That reminds me, is he the Private Du'rome on the Militia roster?

Vargen: *nod*

Vargen: we should think about adding a vice mayor position

Gargish Dragon: This last election makes me think about voting procedures In my country mayor elections usually are done in two steps. The first one is with all candidates and if no one wins with absolute majority (more then 50%) then a second run is done

Thrawn: primaries, and then a final?

Vargen: narrow it down to two then have a run-off

Thrawn: that makes sense

Jovar: That would prevent the splitting of votes we saw last time.

Lori: no plurality i +50% is

Thrawn: much easier to keep someone undesirable out of office

Gargish Dragon: I didnt want to bring this up in the last election because we were already doing it and it would have been unfair to have a second run what ever the results would have been

Vargen: I would say that Thrawn here joining the race almost gave it to Du'Rome no offense

Thrawn: *chuckl*

Jovar: Aye, I had already voted!

Thrawn: none taken Vargen, but I know what you mean. I almost tried dumping all my votes to SegWatch just so he lost hehehe

Lori: seg would have been a more viable canadate if he hadn't advertised 'Eldanor' on all his posts

Gargish Dragon: Anyway, so my official proposal is to have two "steps".. I dont know what the c correct English term is

Vargen: I think it depends on the office and institution actually as to what the actual terms are so long as we com up with legal-sounding names

Thrawn: well here, they have what they call "primaries" which has all the candidates for each party go into the election the winners of the primary for each party goes into the main election

Jovar: but we have no party system (other than the EOS party)

Thrawn: but since we dont have parties here, it could just be the top two

Vargen: yes, but that would be more analogous to each guild deciding on a candidate

Thrawn: *laughs* the OES party, that's a good one ;)

Gargish Dragon: Oh, I'm sure some guilds might want to come up with a candidate. At least I have seen people bragging

Jovar: I think a simple two ballot system would work. Top two candidates run-off.

Vargen: unless one person gets a majority in the first race

Thrawn: I would think the office of mayor would attract more candidates than Justice

Lori: plurality

Vargen: plurality is when there is no majority say if the biggest faction gets 40% they'd have a plurality, if they got 51% that would be a majority

Thrawn: hard to get a majority around here with 3+ candidates

Gargish Dragon: At least we need to announce the elections early enough so people have a chance to become candidate

Vargen: I figure we announce them tonight

Thrawn: why not plan them for late Feb?

Lori: will all office seats be elected upon at once?

Thrawn: let's get this Trinsic thing finished with first I would say

Jovar: If this is official council business, I would move that we adopt the majority plan just discussed.

Vargen: I think we can get the Trinsic thing to a sufficient stage in two weeks - the fact is that we will have to replace our Millitia Captian at least so we had better do it all at once we don't want it to look like we're always holding elections

Thrawn: *thinks, damn, he had a short term

Gargish Dragon: I am not sure about the Captain

Vargen: He asked me to bring it up tonight

Lori: indeed, considering this is still a provisional government

Gargish Dragon: do you want him to be voted by the general populcae?

Vargen: what would you suggest?

Gargish Dragon: I'm just asking..

Lori: i think so, because

Vargen: towns elect their own sherriffs

Thrawn: I would suggest putting limits on who declare themselves candidates

Lori: the captain acts like a sort of liason between

Gargish Dragon: I just wonder what will be best for the Militia

Jovar: The only real alternative might be registered voters

Thrawn: obviously, someone not in the militia at all should be up for Captain

Lori: the council and militia, and the populace

Thrawn: I man should not be up for Captain

Vargen: *nod* we could require a prior term of service

Thrawn: yes

Jovar: Well, that would mean the logical candidate is sitting on my left

Thrawn: definitely

Vargen: although setting that requirement now could be sticky

Thrawn: heheh not really

Vargen: especially since we don't quite know who's in the millitia at the moment

Thrawn: it's ridiculous to allow an utter outsider to sudeenly run the militia. I just don't like the idea of offices of power falling into the wrong hands

Gargish Dragon: Well, first, I was thinking that the Captain should be from the Militia

Vargen: that's my task for this weekend actually

Gargish Dragon: Second,the term of office would be limited, say, 3 to 6 months

Jovar: The question is how often do we want to have elections.

Thrawn: I think 6 months is good

Vargen: yes

zenda: yes that sounds good

Thrawn: 3 months could fly by

zenda: 6 monthsd

Vargen: 6 months is reasonable

Jovar: That's a long commitment to ask.

Thrawn: not really

Gargish Dragon: But I think there already is some term I just read the Charter again.. its 4 months

Vargen: although I still think that the ellections would be held more often to cover resignation than a term's expiration

Thrawn: how long have the offices presently held been filled?

Orchid: Hello again, Gargish

Gargish Dragon: So should we keep the 4 months?

Thrawn: well

Jovar: That seems ok. That's not too often to have elections is it?

Thrawn: as things are, elections are a bit of a task to hold

Gargish Dragon: I know Vraal has been in the office for a longer time

Vargen: I don't think so, not with the way time works here

Thrawn: if these ballot boxes make it easier, than 4 works

Gargish Dragon: well, if we have ballot boxes it should be easier

Lori: i think 4 months is fine, if it becomes a problem we can change it

Gargish Dragon: Alright, then we have two proposals the majority voting procedure

Jovar: let's use a show of hands

Gargish Dragon: with a primary and final all for the proposal please say Aye

Vargen: aye

Thrawn: aye

zenda: Aye

Jovar: Aye

Lori: Aye

Gargish Dragon: All against, please say Nay

Thrawn: *throws an apple at the asleep voters*

Reg LeCrisp: *laughs*

Gargish Dragon: *smiles* any abstains

Mortis: i suppose that would be me

Gargish Dragon: then the proposal is accepted

Vargen: ah, so you are still here

Mortis: Always

Gargish Dragon: The second proposal is about the term of office do we agree an 4 months?

Thrawn: aye

Gargish Dragon: all for it say Aye

zenda: aye

Lori: /aye

Vargen: aye

Jovar: aye

Gargish Dragon: all against say Nay then its passed As for the requirements for candidacy

Jovar: When do we set the election? sorry, proceed

Gargish Dragon: Do we agree that the Captain must bein service of the Militia prior to the election?

Jovar: For how long?

Gargish Dragon: any ideas?

Vargen: I would propose that at least two months service be required

Jovar: 2 months

Vargen: for elections after this coming one

Lori: 2 months or a certain rank?

Vargen: it is too early to apply it retroactively

Jovar: sergeant

Thrawn: 2 months should be enough

Gargish Dragon: 2 months sounds reasonable

Vargen: I think corporal might be enough

Jovar: so you're saying for this election, no requirement?

Vargen: it depends on the turnover rate

Thrawn: obviously higher ranks would be more visible, but that shouldnt limit those ambitious privates from running

zenda: thank you *Smiles*

Vargen: We could stipulate some proof of military expertese

Gargish Dragon: I wouldnt want to limit it to certain ranks

Lori: yes i agree - there could be some abuse of power if we limited it

Vargen: Those privates who show promise will likely be corporals quickly

Jovar: True, since all ranks above Private are chosen

Vargen: you do have a point

Jovar: I guess I don't show promise sorry to sidetrack things

Vargen: well, I haven't been around. I would say no rank requirement, as prior rank will likely come up in the campaign anyway

Gargish Dragon: Well, so do we agree on a minimum term of service of 2 months and no

Vargen: we can let it carry what weight it will with the voters

Gargish Dragon: limit in rank?

Thrawn: yes that sounds good Gargish

Lori: agree

Gargish Dragon: anyone against?

Vargen: for the current race

Jovar: One possible abuse would be dropping people from the roster before they hit 2 months

Thrawn: I dont think anybody would be dismissed without good cause

Vargen: we should at least stipulate that the candidate meet the minimum joining requirements I agree if things like that start happening

Jovar: There is no recourse if they do. But I'm happy with the requirement anyhow.

Lori: that would a good case for our juditial system

Vargen: the chief justice should look into it they have our courts

Jovar: But there is no regulation preventing it.

Vargen: well hello Lurik

Thrawn: well, who has authority to dismiss people?

Jovar: I believe the Captain can drop anyone for any reason according to the charter.

Lurik: greetings all

Vargen: I do think that prior service should not mean immediately prior

Thrawn: and Keuldan would never do such a thing, so it is a non issue

Vargen: if someone wants to come out of retirement to run

Gargish Dragon: Yes, the Captain can dismiss

Jovar: I agree, Vargen

Vargen: then they can so If Lurik there wanted to run against me...

Jovar: But perhaps they had to leave honorably. I mean , not kicked out for cause.

Gargish Dragon: Fine.. then what remains is the position of Mayor. I don't know any restrictions we should put on this position

Jovar: How about a registered citizen!

Vargen: that would be an issue for debate in the campaign yes, and a minmum character age

Thrawn: perhaps something simple as if they wee registered

Vargen: other than that, I don't think any is required or even fair yes

Thrawn: and/or actuallty attended one of these meetings

Lurik: and no guild affiliation for the mayor

Vargen: at least not during the term of service *nod*

Gargish Dragon: well.. registration might be a requirement for any office but this really isnt any issue Well, I think the Mayor should be on the Yew stone carrying the official title of Mayor

Vargen: *nod*

Lurik: aye

Jovar: Can we establish residency time based on date of registration?

Thrawn: hmmm not sure registration tracks the date, does it?

Gargish Dragon: The database has no track of registration date

Thrawn: though that woulda been neat ;) "citizen since 97" hehehe

Vargen: I have an issue should people be allowed to nominate themselves?

Gargish Dragon: Yes, I think so

Thrawn: hmmm... that's a good point though, who really would have any trouble nudging a friend into nominating them

Vargen: I'm inclined to say yes, simply to keep things simpler but I did want to bring it up

Lori: OES might

Gargish Dragon: Yes, thats what I think too, Thrawn

Lurik: OES would nominate a cow if they thought it would help them destroy Yew

Vargen: the thing is, is it worth the extra step?

Vargen: I'm glad to see you still have your sense of humor

Gargish Dragon: Oh.. maybe we should set a requirement that the candidate must be humanoid

Thrawn: *laugh*

Jovar: We could rule out undead!

Orchid: heh

Vargen: we don't want an Ophidian immigrant in the mayors seat do we?

Thrawn: I think that's a very good requirement

Gargish Dragon: That must have been a shock

Orchid: We get that sort of thing in Trinsic all the time

Gargish Dragon: Well...so we have the details fixed?

Vargen: I believe so

Gargish Dragon: The only requirement will be that the mayor must be on the stone and that he must be "humanoid"

Mortis: *growls softly in the back of what would be his throat*

Vargen: I think the Captian should be as well

Gargish Dragon: Oh, that one is already in the charter of the Militia

Reg LeCrisp: and alive

Mortis: That mortal will not loiter near mine horse for long if he knows what's

Vargen: Jovar won't let him hurt it

Lurik: going inact your own justice on him?

Mortis: Alive? Discrimination against the dead?

Vargen: if stipulate an "alive" clause, then we must find a legal definition of undead

Thrawn: yep

Mortis: Justice would hardly be the word for it

Vargen: does alive rule out ghosts only?

Lurik: and that is why your kind should never come to rule this town

Reg LeCrisp: well i think the dead are creepy myself, but i can always just vote against them

Vargen: you have a good point

Gargish Dragon: I think we will have problems defining the term "alive"

Vargen: *nod* I myself was dead for a good while and to tell the truth I'm not really sure what's keeping me here

Mortis: Deny offices to the dead, and who will be next? The elves? The Fae? Orcs?

Reg LeCrisp: bah! superstitious nonsense!

Thrawn: see you at the Trinsic festival hopefully

Mortis: Superstitious?

Vargen: as difficult as it may be to believe I'm inclined to side with Mr. Bones here

Mortis: What could possibly be superstitious *grimaces* Damned slow realm

Reg LeCrisp: i'll believe in elves and fairies as soon as I meet one, and not before

Mortis: I've met plenty

Vargen: there are a few who claim to be elven about

Lurik: I think only people on the towns stone should be eligable for any position

Mortis: Most are not worth letting live

Gargish Dragon: Well, Thrawn is not

Vargen: people should be allowed to maintain nominal status with their guilds the real question is

Mortis: Several are compatible with the ends of the undead, however

Lurik: should be two stones one for each

Gargish Dragon: The stone.. this brings me to another issue

Vargen: we can take care of that once we get the millitia house built

Gargish Dragon: Actually I would like to have non- militia citizens too

Vargen: In that case we do need a seperate stone in case of war

Gargish Dragon: Well.. it isa concern..

Lurik: hate have those craftsmen running around with hit me signs on thier butts heh?

Vargen: exactly

Gargish Dragon: the question is do we want to have war against real PK guilds? (I know this is somewhat OOC)

Reg LeCrisp: *smiles*

Jovar: war!?

Lori: no - bad idea

Vargen: I'm going to be optomistic and plan for the upcoming changes to work - there is more to it than that from what I understand

Lurik: if you are refering to Choas/Order guild....no way

Gargish Dragon: I think this whole talk about order/chaos is no good

Vargen: still, if this town can be placed under the "control" of one side or the other I for one want to have a say in it

Jovar: I agree, now that I know what you're talking about...

Lori: [i have 2 char's in chaos guild...i think it would be bad fer yew to go that way

Vargen: hopefully we can get a strong enough force that the threat of us joining one side or another will keep things quiet - not like that's possible I agree

Gargish Dragon: anyway, I would like to let civilians on the town stone. If we see the necessity we can have a seperate militia stone later I see this is a positive reputation thing. If people know the fellow is a citizen too they should have some assurance that it should be safe to do business with him or go hunting with him .

Lori: it helps create the feeling of "community"

Gargish Dragon: this is where the idea of Justice also comes in citizens must be sure that a crime between citizens cant go without the criminal getting either a trial and punishment or being banned - which might be the severest punishment

Vargen: I like the way you're headed with this

Lori: which brings in our justice system

Jovar: A requirement for being on the stone is submitting to town law. Agreeing to stand trial.

Gargish Dragon: Actually, about town stones.. There is currently an experiment on Test Center - no special "town stone".. but there is a player town and it gets at least a lot of attention from GMs

Vargen: are they all on one guildstone?

Gargish Dragon: Basically, there is one guildstone, yes Of course, that is Test Center, and things are slightly different

Vargen: has there really been a test of the political engine of the guildstones?

Gargish Dragon: but it looks promising The Mayor was voted by declearing fealty

Vargen: that's good to hear the system seems like it would work, but I had not heard of it being tried

Gargish Dragon: There are currently about 50 to 60 citizens, I think

Vargen: do they have a web page?

Gargish Dragon: Well, you could consider the Gate Traveler their web page At least most of the things are discussed there There are now judges and there is a council of some citizens

Vargen: it may be possible to do townstones with multiple fealty trees for various offices... which would make elections pretty much continuous sorry, I'm thinking outloud

Gargish Dragon: Yes.. well, a proposal I made some time ago was to require the guildmaster to "refresh" his presence on the stone so that inactive guildmasters would be removed as guildmaster automatically and fealties to his person removed

Vargen: can't the guild just take control away from them with the current engine?

Gargish Dragon: well the guild should be able to.. but if there are too many inactive members?

Vargen: good point for instance, I think Greywolf is still on the town's stone

Gargish Dragon: of course the other idea would be to remove inactive members automatically in some way. Well, I have heard there also is some mailing list discussing guildstone changes.. I need to find out more

Vargen: is there any more business for the meeting before we discuss mechanics too much?

Gargish Dragon: Actually I think there isnt Unless you have more issues

Jovar: did we set an election date?

Vargen: I did want to mention that Cpt. Vraal is having a millitia meeting Sunday at 10pm here I assume

Gargish Dragon: Oh..I think the election date should be between two weeks from now and end of February

Lori: as for the date...we should try to find out more bout the ballot boxes

Vargen: I posted on the Dev board a while ago, but I don't think I got a reply - there was a Recall debate at full fury at the time so I'm not too surprised

Lori: would be great to test them out on our elections plus give canidates time to campaign

Gargish Dragon: I'd say we keep the announcement of elections until after the Trinsic events

Vargen: are you sure? how long is that expected to run?

Gargish Dragon: I'd say we be comfortable with elections in three weeks

Vargen: sounds like a good timetable

Gargish Dragon: then we can go announcing next weekend and people have enough time to announce candidates and the ballot boxes will hopefully be in by then

Lori: if not we can use our old system?

Gargish Dragon: Yes

Lori: sounds good to me

Vargen: how did that work exactly?

Gargish Dragon: So.. elections would start on Feb. 23

Lurik: yeah whats the 'old' system

Vargen: I was dead at the time you see...

Lori: collection of books ballot books was fairly secure i thought

Vargen: checked against the citizen database?

Gargish Dragon: a ballot sheet book was handed out to everyone

Jovar: nay, there were totally open

Gargish Dragon: No check against the database

Gargish Dragon: by the way, we dont get the names with a ballot box but it is assured that everyone can only vote once

Vargen: by account?

Jovar: that could be a real problem

Gargish Dragon: by character

Vargen: yeah, you never know if all those people from Britain might put a puppet in office

zenda: Is the meeting over with?

Gargish Dragon: Zenda, I think it is.. if there are no other questions

Vargen: will you be at the sunday meeting zenda?

zenda: Yes i will 10 pm here right

Vargen: good to hear it yes

zenda: i need to have my title changed it still says recruit and it should be private

Vargen: is that why it's not displayed?

zenda: yes

Vargen: I know how you feel, the web site still has me listed as inactive

Gargish Dragon: the Captain needs to change it

Jovar: I'm no longer on the web site at all

zenda: was getting a little seeing the title recruit

Vargen: oh, that reminds me should the mayor be the head of the stone? or the captian?

Gargish Dragon: Well.. if we get more civilians

Lurik: of the town stone yes

Jovar: If we're signing up citizens, it should be the Mayor

Vargen: I know the mayor is in charge

Lurik: and ther Capt of the militia stone

Gargish Dragon: he probably should

Vargen: but for adding people *nod* you're probably right

Gargish Dragon: I mean it was convenient to have the Captain as guildmaster but I see no problem that the mayor could grant the titles as well or add new members just recruit the new members to the stone and all the mayor has to do is accept it

Vargen: I think if we add more civilians we should definitely have the mayor in charge

Orchid: So Gargish, are you all set with what's happening tomorrow?

Gargish Dragon: Basically, yes, Orchid

Vargen: make sure there's an artist there to get pictures. I want to know what I missed

Gargish Dragon: The banquet will be at 6 pm, right?

Orchid: ok, we will be in contact tomorrow most likely that is correct 6

Gargish Dragon: I dont know how much time I will have before that time

Orchid: ok, for everyone's general information.. The Midwinter Lights Festival will begin at 2 in the plaza in the southeast of Trinsic near the docks a listing of events and rules is available at http

Gargish Dragon: (there is a link on the Yew pages)

Orchid: the Banquet will follow at 6

Lori: i'll take pictures

Orchid: granted we don't run over from the festival

Vargen: does anyone know when WYU is having their graduation tomorrow?

Orchid: but we should be done by then

Lurik: tonight already over I believe

Lori: oh my

Lurik: want me to ask?

Vargen: Silver and I were both getting our dates mixed up the other night I fear

Orchid: Ok, Gargish, if you have any questions or concerns, just drop me a message

Jovar: Aye, I was a bit confused by that conversation.

Gargish Dragon: Yes.. I'll do so. I look forward to the festival. I enjoyed the last one very much

Orchid: In that case, I hope to see you all tomorrow at the Festival! I must take my leave for now. Thank you for your hospitality in allowing me to visit your council meeting

Gargish Dragon: thanks for coming, Orchid Participants

Reg LeCrisp , Mortis , zenda , Lurik , Lori , Jovar , Orchid , Thrawn , Gargish Dragon , Vargen

Transcript converted and edited by Gargish Dragon