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Porthos
Slightly Crazed
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 1313
Location: Luna, Malas
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 Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | And also why the best new roleplayers come out of guilds that command their members not to visit forums.
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Ya wohl mein Fuhrer !!!
Vee vill sit in zee closet und read Mein Kampf uuntil our eyes fall out
ZIG HEIL!
ZIG HEIL!
ZIG HEIL!
Ok. all joking aside, I can't help think there is an alternitive to hiding people away. It borders on rediculous to command people to remain uninformed and in the dark. (Ask any German *winks*) Hiding people away is one of the things that leads to a lack of trust not only from the other guilds you deal with but from the people you have tried to shelter. History shows us no govornment ever gotten ahead to a point of great success by keeping the masses down trodden. Let them see what the community complains about to help them better understand WHY we don't go LOL, or speak every other sentace in brackets. Those kind of conversations come up all the time in one form or another. It also shows a person, hey, it ain't just my GM bustin my chops but a way of life all these people adhere too. Also by having these new people get involved, post and communicate we on the outside get to know them and see they are good people and a trust does begin to grow. I don't understand the change of tide that people were anti-censorship and became quite vocal now have moved the other way to hiding people. No, that isn't dirrected and any one person or group. If you look around is has become a growing issue. To those that wish to censor and restrict others, ask yourselves this. Would you would be happy if you found out it was done to you? |
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Ceinwyn ab'Arawn
Transcendent Spammer
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 5017
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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I think I have explained numerous times why I personally and deliberately do not show my new people these forums right off the bat. I will address a few of your statements with my own conjecture. Hope what I say doesn't offend anyone.
| Quote: | | It borders on rediculous to command people to remain uninformed and in the dark. |
My people are neither uninformed nor are they in the dark. I hold history classes and pop quiz sessions about community lore and UO lore. I don't command them to not visit these forums, either, if they hear of them from another source, maybe even in guild chat, and ask for a link, I give them one.
| Quote: | | Let them see what the community complains about to help them better understand WHY we don't go LOL, or speak every other sentace in brackets. Those kind of conversations come up all the time in one form or another. It also shows a person, hey, it ain't just my GM bustin my chops but a way of life all these people adhere too. |
Half of these forums are nothing BUT complaints. Why subject anyone to the whining that takes place?
When I recruit I explain why we don't say "LOL" etc. It makes perfect sense once you tell them.
They are exposed to the community enough to know I'm not the only GM implementing the rules, they also know I wouldn't just "bust their chops".
| Quote: | | Also by having these new people get involved, post and communicate we on the outside get to know them and see they are good people and a trust does begin to grow. I don't understand the change of tide that people were anti-censorship and became quite vocal now have moved the other way to hiding people. |
They mostly communicate by actually RPing ingame, and not by way of a message board. If anyone wishes to see a post by anyone in Umbra, all they have to do is come to our forum. There is a link in the Umbra section below.
I don't know if I would call it "hiding" people, but I didn't tell my druids about the forums, either, until much after they were skilled roleplayers. You will notice that during all the drama festing that was going on, not one of my druids took part. They were able to maintain impartiality and neutrality and actually enjoyed their roleplay all the same, during the bickering. I'd call that success.
| Quote: | | To those that wish to censor and restrict others, ask yourselves this. Would you would be happy if you found out it was done to you? |
The right amount of ignorance is, indeed, bliss. As a GM, I take the responsibility upon myself to come to these forums to confer with other GMs and see what events are coming up. I bring this information back to our forum for my guildmembers, or I tell them in guildchat.
I'm sorry if I don't consider what I do Nazism. And yes, I am german.
[Probably should make this reply and the one above a topic of their own, since it doesn't really pertain to Bailos's post.]
Last edited by Ceinwyn ab'Arawn on Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Porthos
Slightly Crazed
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 1313
Location: Luna, Malas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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ummm.....yeah. you can pick it apart all ya want but it was a genreal statement that others aslo tend to agree with. I don't know where you were led astray but.....
| Quote: | | No, that isn't dirrected and any one person or group. |
Which was in responce ONLY to the statement........
| Quote: | | And also why the best new roleplayers come out of guilds that command their members not to visit forums. |
ok......
| Quote: | | command their members |
-----------
| Quote: | | And yes, I am german. |
Same....dyed in the wool, family served. |
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Ceinwyn ab'Arawn
Transcendent Spammer
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 5017
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Porthos, I know you didn't direct it at Umbra. I was just offering a difference of opinion and viewpoint. |
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Porthos
Slightly Crazed
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 1313
Location: Luna, Malas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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NOT Malorn
Certifiable
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 1920
Location: Everywhere
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Zeig Heil. |
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Porthos
Slightly Crazed
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 1313
Location: Luna, Malas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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my bad, it's actually Sieg heil.....
Sieg Heil is a German phrase, which literally means " Hail [to] Victory." |
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NOT Malorn
Certifiable
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 1920
Location: Everywhere
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Yea, I knew it looked wrong, but couldn't think of the actual spelling, haha. |
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Teh Glouris Lrod Kujabis
Transcendent Spammer
Joined: 29 Dec 2003
Posts: 5740
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Would you would be happy if you found out it was done to you? |
Naw, do what is being done now:
"Yes, there are forums for the roleplay community, but once you dive into the OOC side of the community, you might fall into an endless pit of drama. I'd highly reccomend you don't, even just to see how bad it is."
'Command' was a bit harsh of a word. |
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Bailos
Grand Inquisitor
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 4613
Location: The Frozen Wastes
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Well handled. Hurray for diplomacy.
But reiterate my original point. |
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Teh Glouris Lrod Kujabis
Transcendent Spammer
Joined: 29 Dec 2003
Posts: 5740
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Bailos wrote: | | But reiterate my original point. |
I suppose I didn't comment thoroughly on your original point...
| Quote: | | Two-thirds (or better) of the young-blood roleplayers I come across totally fail at giving the proper amount of emotion from their characters. |
| Quote: | | Please, for the love of pete, use some emotion in your roleplay. |
This is a more hardcore roleplay argument. Atlantic is very social style. The very minimum of social style is not talking about real world things, not using knowledge your character didn't find out themself, and adhereing to standard no-smiley no-LOLZ rules. While it is a good argument, it doesn't have a place on Atlantic yet, as we have more pressing concerns: AKA, no decision making process or rules or central list of guilds that are universally agreed upon. Save this argument once we are in a position to judge the QUALITY of roleplay and what to do about it, because it won't improve by throwing posts at it. Trust me, I've tried, somewhere to the number of four thousand and six hundred times, or however many posts I have 
| Quote: | | When you have been captured, you have to think to yourself, "MY LIFE IS AT STAKE". |
Bahaha. Therein lies another problem: UO was never a perfect roleplay medium, and it is getting worse fast. HOWEVER, for once we have a chance to change this, and I would like to bring attention to this thread once more, as I cannot possibly stress enough what good might come from making a loud, positive response to the ricardo trial. I promised I would give no specifics, so I can leave you only with the thought of EA paying attention to roleplayers, and wonder over what I might have been told by whom. I really can't stress it enough. Go post. Back to the point at hand, and more specifically, there is no roleplay around death. Any seasoned assassin roleplayer can prove my point: You can do a hit without telling the target beforehand OOC or IC, and even IF they roll with it, the majority of the targets will not roleplay anything more than a momentary weakness, if anything. Few knock themselves out of comission for a period of time extending multiple days. It just goes to show that there is zero reprocussion for death in UO, and we have no RP standard for it.
| Quote: | | Put yourself in a -real- situation, think how a normal person would react. I realize we create characters whom we like to think "have no fear" but you are almost dead wrong. |
Oh no FF7 syndrome! Everyone is Cloud Strife or Sephiroth! The problem in roleplay games is that everyone has been subject to books and video games, COUNTLESS times, where you are the hero, main character, main focus, super rare bloodline that the bad guys want, center of attention, extrordinary powers, absolutely fearless, and key thing: NEVER LOSES. When entering a roleplay world, it is easy to be stuck in that mindset. In a roleplay world, you are joe adventurer at best, and if you are -EVER- a hero or main character, it is EARNED. Not gained through a plot where you stick yourself at the center, not because you call yourself president of the land you claim, not because you roleplay being a badass: BECAUSE YOU EARNED IT WITH GOOD ROLEPLAY. I hate to use my friend as an example because it seems less authentic, but remember there were a few people for a while that went as far as to call Vaen the Avatar. He earned it through a reputation of roleplay and fighting. Also, understand that this entire paragraph was not intended to build up to that point, it was just one point I was making. So if you don't agree with that point, re-read everything BUT that point. It still has a hell of a lot of meaning.
So again, we are all somewhat guilty of being a center of attention, something unique, a sentient undead or half-planar or royalty or some such. While we scoff at demi-gods and obvious godmoding style characters, the above things and stuff like it that I listed are on the same path. However, this community accepts it (and I am not saying I don't, read on for my opinion), and the point is that it takes a lot of responsibility and roleplay to do it right. So those of you that roleplay something a little more than John the Citizen or Jane the Shepherd (read: EVERYONE IN THE COMMUNITY), you must see that the more special authority and powers and such you give yourself, the more roleplay and effort you have to put into it to do it RIGHT. That is why demigods and stuff don't work, because there is simply no way to roleplay that good and have enough to back it up (and it doesn't work with UO lore, but that is another argument). So, to summarize: The more roleplay power you have, the more responsibility and quality you must load yourself up with to make it work, and also the fact that some things are simply beyond your roleplay skill to pull off, or beyond the roleplay skill of what is possible to be pulled off (or beyond what roleplay the game can represent), and those things are best left alone. I've heard quite a few times in the past where someone said that they liked so-and-so more when they roleplayed "insert character here" and now that they are roleplaying "insert supernatural/awesome/etc character here" they no longer enjoy roleplaying with them. I've come across that myself as well.
| Quote: | We all create fantasy characters with their own personalities and unique backgrounds and traits...but when it boils down, the avatars we chose to play are still PEOPLE, with gut instincts and normal reactions to stressors and stimuli.
Please, bring some intelligence to your roleplay experience...that is all |
You have to face the fact that some people pick roleplay styles beyond their own intelligence. I am not saying 'LOL EVERYONE IN THE COMMUNITY IS STUPID' or 'LOL BAD ROLEPLAYERS ARE BAD BECAUSE THEY ARE DUMB IRL', I am saying that some people bite off way more than they can chew, or try to build a reputation on intelligence (read: most roleplayers, as few are willing to admit average or below average intelligence) and they just can't keep up with how sharp their character is supposed to be. Honestly, the character style free of responsibility and restrictions is a dumb/unwise one, because they can just do whatever they hell they feel is right. The other argument is an old one: A type of poor rolepay is when some roleplayers don't make a character at all, and they simply roleplay themself in the ultima world, -OR- their character is just that similar to its player OOC that the same effect occurs. That effect is the inability to keep IC and OOC seperate, which kills realism, because everyone is too bogged down with drama, or starting drama (and claiming that everyone else started it with you). However, that leads into a whole different rant... So to reiterate my point: Don't bite off more than you can chew, and don't roleplay "The perfect you". Every human being alive has a mental image of themself, perfect, that they would love to be. Many times that persona is manifested as one of your roleplay characters on Atlantic, and thus, you make too deep a connection with it, and you get too upset if someone is about to outsmart 'the perfect you', thus your character is as intelligent as you are (no seperation from OOC/IC) and thus you get pissed if The Perfect You is tricked or outsmarted because you take it as a personal insult. So I think what people need to do is roleplay characters that they themself don't connect with perfectly; you might have more fun with it, and more skill with it. I know a few people got a blast out of my tamer Kokiru back in the day, because he was a silly character with multiple personalities. Not OOC/unrealistic at all, just way different. That was how Dryzzid was able to come back to UO like 1-2 years ago, he played an insane character that he had fun with. Try it. Don't attach to your character.
So. My in-depth reply, consisting of opinions, some of them nothing more than that, some of them backed by fact, some of them backed by theory, some of them backed by nothing. Take it or leave it. I hope someone gains some insight on the situation by reading my insight on the situation, and can turn it into a solution.
P.S. I did indeed cut up and move around some of your lines, but none of it was to take it out of context, simply to group it better. |
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Ceinwyn ab'Arawn
Transcendent Spammer
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 5017
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, Kuja, for putting into words things I am incapable of expressing. Now, we won't need a class the people who need it read that post and realize it IS them. |
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Teh Glouris Lrod Kujabis
Transcendent Spammer
Joined: 29 Dec 2003
Posts: 5740
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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I type this rant out once a week, I get better at it every time  |
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Bailos
Grand Inquisitor
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 4613
Location: The Frozen Wastes
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:33 am Post subject: |
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A very thoughtful and well done response, Kujasteve.
In justification of my post, I point you to my sig picture. |
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NOT Malorn
Certifiable
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 1920
Location: Everywhere
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:26 am Post subject: |
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I must agree with most of the aforementioned. I will not say all, and I will also not state specifics I do not agree with, because no one needs vagueries. You make a spectacular point in that none of us are perfect, though, from the start of the tread, I was on Bailos' side for as so much, we need to think harder on the characters we have developed and place, in them, the necessary realism, including instincts and rationality different from our own.
If anyone needs a possible aid...
When I approach a character I will be playing in a play, I break down everything they say in the play and question myself repeatedly of their motivations, desires, instincts, feelings, and logic. I reorganize myself after that... then I do it again. We have all created the characters we play here, and because of that, we know their feelings, motivations, etc. So we're already a step ahead. From there, take a look at each SITUATION your character faces and has faced rather than what they say. And from those situations and how your character responds in the bio YOU wrote, derive a personality. And even if you don't relate to it very well, run with it! You'll find yourself slipping into character, and becoming your character. You, granted, don't have the adrenaline of a stage performance, but you are putting on a show for all the other players out there. Put on the best damn perfomance you can! Rationalize your character's thoughts and relate them to the developed personality... not one you decide on *This is the hardest part of roleplaying* and make that rationalizeation reflect in their reactions to each sitatution. It's a helluva lot more fun that "LOL, I arz teh pwn joo cuz I iz a God!"
Toren out. |
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