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Samon Triest
Sage
Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Posts: 720
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 Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Cal. He summed it all up nicely. Go Cal!
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Cal Hurst
Atlantic Legend
Joined: 29 Dec 2003
Posts: 8025
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Samon Triest wrote: | | I agree with Cal. He summed it all up nicely. Go Cal! |
*marks the date on the calendar*
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Mairsil
Lore Master
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 1241
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Both possible, but what about the times when you are resurrecting someone that is no where near their body? Happens more often than not, especially in times of battle when ghosts run to someone who is resurrecting. |
There are times when this happens true, but i know that i've rezzed people icly' i wouldn't have during/after a battle just so that I know they can get to thier stuff before it decays, so are those acts really even roleplay?
| Quote: | | Oh I've seen a lot of people do it. I've also seen people repair weapons and armor in 15 seconds or so. |
I've seen people do it, though rarely. Perhaps this one is difficult because we don't really want to make the person we are repairing for wait a few days.
| Quote: | | Too much realism is bad, and too little realism is bad |
With this I agree. I feel that the points I've mad on realism are me doing what feels natural in the roleplay setting. So I try to get people thinking on whether the same things feel natural to them.
| Quote: | | Well of course not, Dupre was a warrior, I don't believe he would have had training in hiding. However, there are some books in the world of Ultima that deal with this sort of thing. One mentioned people disappearing and reappearing in thin air. And I think the Ricardo story arc also had something to do with this as well, as it was commented that perhaps he could do this as well. |
It is possible that it might of happened during the Ricardo Arc, I don't remember. I just usually feel like even if abstract there is a reason for disappearing and reappearing to happen. Whether it is magic, or an item, etc. I can't remember in instance in which I ever felt that someone in lore or in an event disappeared 'just because.' Even the time lord disappears and reappears, but I never thought of that as anything like hiding..more so jumping in and out of our time. Note...it is possible that the drow EM has done this..but ugh..don't get me started on that roleplay.
| Quote: | | I'm all for adding fluff. Fluff makes games. My initial argument with this situation was that people were -telling- others that they should duck behind a desk or a chair. That was my problem with it. |
It is not up to me how people roleplay certain situations or what choices they make when they do. I would suggest those as valid options, but I wouldn't tell anyone to do that specifically. I'd ask instead, why not do something like that?
| Quote: | | "Making sense" is something that is very hard to do in a Fantasy setting. Very hard. We can allow it to "make sense" to us here. As roleplayers, we're wrapped our heads around the idea that "magic" can do things, hence you suggest a ring. But what if a character just has the ability to slip through the shadows into another plane, as Kinn mentioned? I suppose an attached emote to the hide button wouldn't be too hard to fasten. |
I'm willing to believe things can happen. Much like your example, I have a lasombra Vampire who can slip into shadows. I don't find it unreasonable, I just make a point when I do it to sort of move toward a spot where i would expect shadows to be and emote a fading of sorts.
| Quote: | | Believable for who, though? I guess my problem with UO's mechanics is that they aren't explained like the other mediums I'm used to RPing in. UO's website says that you can "disappear into the shadows." I'm not advocating there being no reason for someone just disappearing into thin air. I'm saying that it is possible for someone to do that without the help of a ring or a smoke bomb. The mechanics support that. |
This probably would be easier with a better explanation of the mechanics yes. The mechanics do support hiding without rings or potions, this is undeniable.
How the mechanics are used though is what makes the difference. I don't have a problem with a mechanic, I just want people to use it in a manner fitting to the roleplay. More often than not i feel there is a better way to do something like hiding than just using the skill.
I have 120 necromancy on barl too, but it supports my roleplay with him. I think it more interesting and have a lot more fun making up my own necromantic spells to solve some problems then I do just pains spiking them all until they go away.
| Quote: | | That's not nearly the same thing at all. One is a polite gesture IC by one's character not being rude to the other patrons. It has nothing to do with OOC whatsoever, atleast for me |
To put it simply, I feel that all role play ideas are generated oocly. I think something before my character does. I reason oocly before my character hides, that it would do more justice to the individual I am rp'ing with if I give them something to go on so that they know what is going on. If i choose not to and use the skill, I'm still hiding, but they don't know anything in or out of character. Hell if we are in a house I might even just think you lost connection. It leaves us less to roleplay with. Not to mention that how we do something like hiding tells the person more about our character. For example, if i fade into the shadows becoming transparent, that person gets to think 'holy crap there is something strange about him.' If I use a ring, then that character can note that and in the future might use that knowledge agaisnt me.
| Quote: | | Blinking out of existence really isn't that far fetched compared to a LOT of the other things that go on in Sosaria. Not by a long shot. |
True.
Ultimately, I am not out to restrict people, I am out to generate awesome roleplay with awesome people and have a good time doing it. I just have faith in the potential of this community to bring roleplay to a level on atlantic that would draw others to us. If someone from another shard could spend one night role playing on Atlantic and think 'wow, this is really impressive, this is what I want to do with my time in ultima'...without all the europa style badger banners?
Seems like win to me.
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"You see I can not be forsaken, because I'm not the only one. We walk amongst you, beating, r#ping, must we hide from everyone?" - Jon Davis |
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Grignag
Sage
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 500
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:01 am Post subject: |
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I'd just as soon say that there is room for either route. I think the point has been well belabored that Sosaria is a magical world. We have artifacts that allow you to swing mauls faster then you humanly possibly (striking, withdrawing the maul and then striking again within a second), draw magic from clothes that allow you to cast spells, armor that defies the "thermdynamics" of the world by reducing the required amount of reagents required for a spell. Magic is freaking everywhere and its not just for the mages.
Given this, those that wish to use HiPS can have access to an "enchanted" cloak, or ring or any of the other ideas (or half air elemental...pretty sure someone has actually used that reason before...awesome). If they are asked about it, they can have an RP reason for it without having to resort to macroing "*throws cloak over head* 'Set wait 2 seconds' 'Use Skill: Hide'". For those that choose to 'lack such a magical item' they are free to hide behind objects, turn corners, move into a crowd, etc. And it can't be argued that finding such an artifact is extremely hard or rare. Again, magic is everywhere.
In the end, when people stealth it only ever evokes two reactions anyway: "Meh." or "Find him!", which makes what flair you use largely irrelavent, just an extra bit of flavor.
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Last edited by Grignag on Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Edda
Certifiable
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1586
Location: US
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| Samon Triest wrote: | | I agree with Cal. He summed it all up nicely. Go Cal! |
yay, my baby daddy agrees w/ cal, too |
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Ariana Lenoir
Lore Master
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 1140
Location: City of Britain
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:07 am Post subject: |
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I think hiding should be considered the act of going unnoticed. This skill can be due to hiding in the shadows, refraction of light due to special clothing/items, ability to blend in to their surroundings, or even kindred mind tricks. As long as folks have a rp reason why their characters are able to do it and they have the skill in-game, than that should be it. If they have the skill, they can use it in any way the game mechanics allow them to. It shouldn't be the community's responsibility to decide how it should be used. A lot of stuff doesn't make sense in ultima compared to the world as -we- know it or assume it should be. However, this world is our character's reality as unlogical as it can be at times.
*wanders off to shove a fifty 6ft halberds into a backpack and carry it around....*
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Edda
Certifiable
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1586
Location: US
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Well said |
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Jonathan Strathmore
Certifiable
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 1986
Location: Inside your mind.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Ariana Lenoir wrote: | I think hiding should be considered the act of going unnoticed. This skill can be due to hiding in the shadows, refraction of light due to special clothing/items, ability to blend in to their surroundings, or even kindred mind tricks. As long as folks have a rp reason why their characters are able to do it and they have the skill in-game, than that should be it. If they have the skill, they can use it in any way the game mechanics allow them to. It shouldn't be the community's responsibility to decide how it should be used. A lot of stuff doesn't make sense in ultima compared to the world as -we- know it or assume it should be. However, this world is our character's reality as unlogical as it can be at times.
*wanders off to shove a fifty 6ft halberds into a backpack and carry it around....* |
I don't think it's anyone's purpose here to decide for the rest of the community how it should be used. This is just a friendly discussion of differing opinions. I'm enjoying, personally, hearing other people's takes on the matter. |
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Cal Hurst
Atlantic Legend
Joined: 29 Dec 2003
Posts: 8025
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Mairsil: Having pretty much agreed with or understood your pov on the rest of your points, I'm going to respond to this one specifically
| Quote: | | To put it simply, I feel that all role play ideas are generated oocly. I think something before my character does. I reason oocly before my character hides, that it would do more justice to the individual I am rp'ing with if I give them something to go on so that they know what is going on. If i choose not to and use the skill, I'm still hiding, but they don't know anything in or out of character. Hell if we are in a house I might even just think you lost connection. It leaves us less to roleplay with. Not to mention that how we do something like hiding tells the person more about our character. For example, if i fade into the shadows becoming transparent, that person gets to think 'holy crap there is something strange about him.' If I use a ring, then that character can note that and in the future might use that knowledge agaisnt me. |
I understand what you are saying, and yes all role play ideas are generated OOCly. Our characters are not freethinking beings. Their thoughts and feelings are generated by us as the ones controlling them. However, when I forward my thoughts to my characters about leaving a tavern or a house to recall, I don't do it as an OOC gesture to those who are there to be polite. I put myself in my characters mind, and do it as an IC gesture to those others who are in the tavern.
It's a very, very thin line between IC and OOC, I'll admit. But I categorize that specific action as leaning more towards IC reason than OOC reason.
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Mairsil
Lore Master
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 1241
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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You are probably right, I think we understand each other after many a post.
But you know.
Go die forever.
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"You see I can not be forsaken, because I'm not the only one. We walk amongst you, beating, r#ping, must we hide from everyone?" - Jon Davis |
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Cal Hurst
Atlantic Legend
Joined: 29 Dec 2003
Posts: 8025
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed, a discussion with two differing points that ended peacefully and with respect.
Oh, and I hate your face.
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